Fossil Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 And a photo from the back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 4, 2020 Author Share Posted April 4, 2020 Unfortunately one of the parts that arrived today for the differential was wrong and I'm going to try and find another spider gear. After comparing the one that I thought was good with a new one it's apparent that it is badly worn. On a good note the new drive shaft was finished to I drove to Sioux Falls and picked it up. In this photo you can see the new and old shafts together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 14, 2020 Author Share Posted April 14, 2020 I think (hope) the last of the differential parts have been found and should be here by the end of the week. The spider pinion shaft was a real challenge but after spending all day yesterday searching I think it has been found. Looks right and measures right. Fingers crossed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 18, 2020 Author Share Posted April 18, 2020 Got all the new parts gathered up and checked them against the old ones and everything matches up. Started cleaning things for reassembly (decades old cosmoline). It's really amazing how well that stuff protects from corrosion and how hard it is to get off. Even diesel doesn't make a good cleaner. Ayway decided to pull the pinion shaft and discovered that the outboard bearing is pitted. So now I have to find a bearing and race Monday as nothing is open on Saturday. One of the brake lines is kinked and will need some brake fluid also. I'd sure be a happy camper if I could get this put back together next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 In town today and no one had the timken bearing and race I needed so ordered online. Probably going to be another week. Seems like everything I need is a week away. 😒 Tomorrow I'll start on the fender and hope to have that done before the bearing gets here. Run the engine up to operating temp and change the oil. Use the remote camera and check the sludge buildup in the pan. Will try and post some photos of the fender as work progresses. Should be nice enough to work outside on the fender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 21, 2020 Share Posted April 21, 2020 Did the rim bolts I sent work for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 21, 2020 Author Share Posted April 21, 2020 Haven't got there yet John. I'll let you know when I try them. From looking at them they should work fine. Thanks again for all your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 22, 2020 Author Share Posted April 22, 2020 This afternoon I spent some time with the hammer and dolly knocking down high spots. Then it was onto the Bondo, cheese grater, and sanding. It's not going to take a lot more and the fender will be removed and the back side done. The underside of the fender will get undercoated. A couple more afternoons and it should be time for paint. Forgot to pick up glazing compound so there will be extra sanding unless I get to town. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Great work! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 23, 2020 Author Share Posted April 23, 2020 I'm finding that recreating the flared lip at the edge of the fender is a real pain in the hind end. It was done with Bondo before the accident and who ever did it was a master at their trade which I am not. I need to come up with some kind of jig or mold to form it with. This is turning into the hardest part of the project and when figured out probably wont be bad. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted April 26, 2020 Author Share Posted April 26, 2020 Spent the last couple of days thinking and working in the garden. Finally came up with an idea for forming the lip on the fender. I had some old self adhesive foam insulation for installing the topper on a pickup. It's 1/4" x 1 1/2" wide so it was split to half that. The outline of the lip was traced onto the fender with a sharpie marker. The foam was installed along the outside of the traced line. Then the Bondo was applied. There was some concern about the Bondo sticking to the foam but that turned out to not be a big problem. What actually caused the most grief was the way the foam stuck to the finished part of the fender. The stuff stuck to the fender like a leech to flesh. Anyway it's done and it is going to be usable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 Today the last part came for the differential. Spent this afternoon and evening putting it back together. Thankfully all the parts were correct and went together well. I had forgotten how much fun it is getting the spider gears in. Those conical thrust washers were kind of a pain. Safety wires to be installed. Hopefully by tomorrow evening it will be back on it's wheels again. Be nice to back it out of the shop so the fender can be finished. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Wow , moving along nicely . Your workmanship is a step above , for sure . That little spanner tool is that to load bearing or something ? Glad your enjoying . I do the same in quarantine every day . I'm high risk so stay home in retirement . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 Thank you for the compliment. Been fabricating stuff most of my life and still enjoy it. Yes the tool is for setting the pre-load and backlash. Just a piece of scrap with a couple of roll pins. It and the wheel puller will get put under the seat for safe keeping. My wife is high risk so we have been tending the home fires also. Had to sneak out one day this week to fish. 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Any thoughts on what caused the failure of the rear . Components seem pretty beefy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 I can only guess but it would seem that one rear tire was off the edge of the road and the other on the pavement. When it was hit one tire tried to roll forward and the other slid in the dirt or tried to turn backwards snapping the spider shaft and braking two teeth. I was quite surprised at the amount of wear that the axle and spider gears showed. The ring and pinion look really good. I suppose driving on bad roads with unequal traction probably had something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) As of this evening it's back on four wheels. New brake line was installed. Monday going to get the wife in the drivers seat to help bleed the brakes. I did use double lip seals for both the inner and outer axle seals. The bolt that holds the brake line to the top of the axle tube is standard 1/4-20 so the those threads should vent. Ran into something else interesting. The engine is running rich and the mixture screws are working. First thought was either wrong jetting or a high float level. Today when I was under the car I thought I'd look a little closer at the electric fuel pump. Turns out it's a 6v pump running on 12volts. Also it's rated at 5 to 8 psi. Now I'm wonder if the pump isn't over pressuring the needle and seat in the carb. The previous owner did say he has a couple more carbs for the car. I'm wondering if this has been an ongoing problem. The carb that's in there appears to either be new or rebuilt. Looking into purchasing a 12v pump rated for 2 to 4 psi. Outer Axle seal. Fuel pump installation as received. Might mount the new pump to the frame and clear this mess up. Edited May 3, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Lets see some engine pics . I am not to familiar with what all DeSoto offered . I assume you have no engine driven fuel pump on it ,but vacuum tank . Most try to make those work or use electric pump to prime and start . As not to have it pumping in case of emergency . My truck was first years they put on engine fuel pumps ,also water pumps . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I use a pancake style, inline fuel regulator to bring the fuel pressure down to 2-3 pounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) I did fabricate a different set of brackets for the alternator as the one on it were made from very light materials. Looks like an ordinary mechanical fuel pump to me. Edited May 3, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 I've never seen a coil like this before with one wire coming into the top and the other leaving the bottom. Someone must have paid a lot to have this aluminum radiator fabricated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Nice , Did not expect it to be down draft carb . Looks like engine fuel pump is there but by-passed .?? Not a hard rebuild . unless you have cam problem . No sure on coil . May have something to do with mounting . Some from era where attached to back of ignition switch and stuck out behind dash . Coil wire when through cowl to distr. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 (edited) If anyone has a line on one of these or similar engines I wouldn't mind having an extra. Really hoping to have June bug on the road the end of next week if I don't run into any more snags. Edited May 3, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbking Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Looks like someone has replaced the troublesome Stromberg D-series carb with a more modern Zenith. Assuming the installer picked the Zenith with the correct internal venturi size, this carburetor should give excellent service. However, 5 psi IS TOO MUCH! 3~4 is about right. A 6-volt pump running on 12 volts will produce more than rated pressure. Carter used to offer one that was rated 2~3 psi at 6 volts, and 4~6 psi at 12 volts. Best would be to get a regulated pump which can have the pressure adjusted. Second best would be to keep the existing pump, and install a quality regulator with an internal bypass. Third best would be fix the original mechanical pump (some might have this as first). There is no fourth best. Do not even think about considering the possibility of purchasing one of the dial-type inline regulators that sell for 19.95 to 39.95 (depending on the conscience of the vendor). They are really useful if one has a rabbit problem in ones garden, and a strong throwing arm! Other suggested uses are as a paperweight, or a display to show someone what not to buy. Jon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 The 6 volt coils are a common item at most auto or tractor stores . Also pretty cheap , but will have both wires on top . You may want to get a new one and sell that rare working one to someone with the ignition that takes it . I vote rebuild fuel pump #1 . However that looks to be a after market type B . Not that it makes much difference ,unless your going for strict oem parts , Like a few of us crazies ! . I have already rebuild aftermarket from my '31 196ci four cyl.,. but do not if compatible . Would be willing to sell . also extra new coil . Just not economical to ship coil . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 3, 2020 Author Share Posted May 3, 2020 3 hours ago, carbking said: Best would be to get a regulated pump which can have the pressure adjusted. For the time being I'm going with a 2.5 to 4 psi electric to get the car on the road. Have had good luck with those in the past but if problems persist a regulator under the hood will be next. The throttle response is almost instantaneous which is impressive considering the age of the vehicle. A number of younger guys have seen it run and they can't get over how snappy it is. It's funny how many of them have never heard of or seen a straight 8. Am I getting old or what???? The coil is one thing I haven't researched. I'm sure it's a 6 volt coil running on a 12 volt system. There is a large ballast resistor on top of it. I need to take some voltage readings to see what's up . Should a 12 volt coil with internal or external resistor be used? Thanks for your offers of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Sorry not much help there . Did not know you had 12volt system . Figured it to be 6 vdc pos grd . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 Today the wife and I were able to get the brakes bled and working. Going to be interesting to see how straight it stops. Also took on a job I've been dreading and this will make some cringe. Except for the bolts the seat belts are ready to be installed in the front seat. Was able to hide everything under the seat. The cross member and seat belts can be easily removed later if need be. I will be installing 3 sets in the back for grand-kids. Tomorrow the new driveshaft goes in and the differential and transmission will be filled with grease. Wife is picking up the new Holley fuel pump and hope to have that installed also. The rear fender will come off and the body work finished. Really hoping to be on the road by Saturday. Found this interesting tag on the inside of the door panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I do hope you do not put "Grease" in the differential and transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 5, 2020 Author Share Posted May 5, 2020 9 hours ago, Tinindian said: I do hope you do not put "Grease" in the differential and transmission. It's almost that thick. It's called 600 wt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 I have used 600 wt steam cylinder oil as do many/most Ford Model A guys. I suspect it is adequate for 45 mph trips but would not use it anymore. In 400,000 miles (much of it on the highway at 50-55+ mph) I have replaced the brgs and C&P three times. Checking back through my records each time it blew up I was using 600 wt. When I was using proper gear lube I had no breakdowns. Do a search here on the forums and you will find many modern gear lubes that properly replace your original lubes. 600 wt steam cylinder oil does not stand up to the pressure between your C&P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) I'm not planning to do any Highway trips with this and 45 miles an hour is probably adequate for where I'm going. I will research it before changing the oil again in a thousand miles. Thanks for your suggestions. I have been looking into the options and there are a bunch of opinions out there. Everything from straight STP to hypoid gear oils. Another fur ball is the Non-detergent oil thing. So who is right and who do we believe. From the looks of the wear that this differential showed I'd say there is probably something better. This is what I put in there for the time being. This 600 Weight Oil Is Necessary For Many Early Fords It Is Nearly Impossible To Find Locally It Saw Use In Differentials, Transmissions, And Steering Boxes Will Not Attack Brass Or Bronze Parts One Quart The lubricant used in the early days of motoring up into the thirties was a very heavy clinging type of lubricant known as 600 W Oil. In viscosity it is very much like today’s S. A. E. 250 Gear Oil but is easier on soft metals. It was used in differentials because full floating rear axles were not in general use, and allowance had to be made in the seals to allow the axle to move up and down as far as a quarter inch. To prevent the oil from leaking at the wheels the lubricant was made to cling to the gears. The same principle applies to transmissions and steering boxes. In today's cars the seals can be made to fit very closely due to better engineering and materials, therefore lighter weight lubricants are used. The main causes of oil leaking at the rear wheels are worn seals or bearings, but over filling and/or using a lighter weight lubricant than recommended can also cause leaks. This 600W oil comes in a quart bottle, and it contains no additives that could attack brass or bronze parts. Using this weight lube will help eliminate oil seal leaks.TIP: Leave rear axle 600W 3/4 inches below filler opening; overfilling is the main cause of rear axle leaks. Edited May 6, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 (edited) Got everything done today that I planned on doing except fill the transmission. After looking at the chocolate that drained out of there I just let it drain overnight. Tomorrow the fender is coming back off and get finished. I'll be able to prime and paint without the car in there. Still shooting for a Saturday drive if nothing else comes up. I just had one of those dreaded moments. That new drive shaft was a pain to put on because of the E brake drum. Now I have to take it back off because I forgot the cotter keys in the Transmission output shaft nut and differential input shaft. How many ways can a guy feel STUPID????????????????????????????😡 DANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited May 6, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Any of these would be better than 600W HYPOID Sae 250 Sae 140 Shell Dentax Shell Valvata Texaco Thabun 250 Texaco Meropa 680 Lubriplate SPO 299 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 Today I ran out of steam. Quit early. Did get everything corrected and reassembled. Filled the transmission and changed the oil in the engine.Got the seat back in and the carpet. Used 30 wt. non-detergent with some MMO added. Don't want to get too carried away as it looks like it's been running the Non-detergent stuff. I'll probably pull the pan one of these days and look things over. Going to order a 12 to 6 volt step down so the heater can be hooked up along with the gas gauge. Tomorrow while it's up in the air all the fitting will get grease then it's time to lower it and see if it will go down the road. Will have to stick to the back roads as the only lights on the back are signals and 4 way flasher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 8, 2020 Author Share Posted May 8, 2020 Still out of ambition today so stayed in the house. Part of the day tomorrow is spoken for and the weather for the rest of the week is going to be lousy so "June Bug" won't be hitting the road till next week. On top of that my 30 year old creeper is giving up the ghost. Ordered a new one as I suspect spending more time under this car.is going to be the norm. I had gotten to were being under any of the newer vehicles was not enjoyable but it's actually refreshing to work under this DeSoto. So much room to move around and everything is wide open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) The Wife and I put 8 miles on the DeSoto today before taking the rear fender off to finish. Couple of observations. Going to have to get some of the slack out of the steering and turn the brake drums. Neither is real bad but annoying. The engine starts and runs good. It pulls like a mule and short shifting it is not a problem. Don't know if I would want to run it above 40 mph very long. It's winding pretty good at 40 and seems a lot more relaxed at 25 to 35 mph. Going to have to figure out how to balance these wood wheels. I have an old Coats bubble balancer but don't think I'll be able to use it. Might have to make a mandrel and use 4 ball bearings. Going to have to move the seat ahead another hole as my wife says it looks like I'm setting to far away from the steering wheel. And the best part, the differential is quiet. The sounds sure bring me back to the old radio programs except they shift better than me but I'll get it. Double clutching while short shifting seems to work the best. Edited May 12, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 You can balance the front wheels by slightly loosening the bearings and spinning the wheel slowly then letting it stop. The heavy spot will always be down. Trial and error for weights. They are smoother if you can split the weight and put them on 3 or 4 inches on each side of the light spot. I have always mounted my tires with the serial number opposite the valve stem and have only had to balance two tires/wheels in 500,000 miles. My Pontiac will go down any smooth highway at 50 or 55 mph with no hands on the wheel and no vibration at all. I have had all the suspension and steering apart and replaced and/or adjusted everything twice except the steering box has never been apart only had the slack adjusted once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted May 12, 2020 Author Share Posted May 12, 2020 What year is your Pontiac? I don't think this DeSoto would do 55 more than one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 (edited) Read my signature at the bottom of all my posts and see the pictures below it. Edited May 12, 2020 by Guest (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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