Fuel delivery issues on my '63 (401 no a/c)

[JanZverina]

I didn't know we had to do anything w/ that linkage. Isn't the Edelbrock basically a Carter design that they took over? RivNut's response up 7 messages in this thread indicated nothing was needed, but maybe that's for a swap between a 4GC and an original AFB.

[RivNut]

1 hour ago, JanZverina said:

  Latest update: The carb shop in LA let us know that the 4GC he had for rebuild failed the on-engine tests and he's still looking into why. So my mechanic suggested we try an Edelbrock 1406 w/ electric choke and now the Riv is running strong and smooth. Picked it up today - drove it on coastal roads and freeway and no issues at all. So... as mentioned I have to have a conversation with the shop that "rebuilt" my 4GC to see if we can come to some agreement on a refund or partial refund. Any suggestions on what's fair? I know some of you are in the repair business and time is $$, but I paid ~$450 plus to get a well-performing carb and that was not the case.

  BTW we used a small adapter so I could retain the original large red air cleaner housing. I always thought its air intake pointed toward the power steering pump but page 3-7 of the factory Chassis Manual is not exactly clear. It says "standard" 4 bbl air cleaners should have the air inlet tube positioned about 15 degrees to the right of the center line of the engine. I take that to mean passenger side.  The text does mention "except Riviera engines" but it's not very clear.

  Thanks, glad to be nearing the end of this project.      

A correct Riviera air cleaner sits as you first described.  Another reason to use a stock carb.  Three are alignment tabs on the base of the air cleaner, that when installed correctly orient the snorkel in the correct position.  What you read is probably correct for the LeSabre, Wildcat, and Electra.

 

Electra, Wildcat, Lesabre

 

 

Riviera

 

 

These pictures are of 64s but the colors on the 63 would be the only difference.

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by RivNut (see edit history)

[JanZverina]

Thanks, Ed. I always thought that was the positions from all the Riview pix, etc. I knew about the alignment tabs but I guess with the new setup one could point the inlet tube to the right, as it was on my '60 Electra. (It's OK to post an Electra pix on the ROA forum, right?)

   

[RivNut]

10 hours ago, JanZverina said:

Thanks, Ed. I always thought that was the positions from all the Riview pix, etc. I knew about the alignment tabs but I guess with the new setup one could point the inlet tube to the right, as it was on my '60 Electra. (It's OK to post an Electra pix on the ROA forum, right?)

   

It would probably okay to post a picture of the entire car if the rest of it looks as nice as everything in this picture. 

[telriv]

AHH, a 1960 era Electra with A/C.  A rare one indeed.

 

Yes, what Ed mentioned is for a stock replacement AFB.  The DynaFlow linkage needs to be hooked up to work properly.  Throttle shafts could be swapped from an original carb.  ALSO, the carb. top plate where the choke blade sits can be swapped for an original top plate so the air filter is pointing in the proper direction with the air cleaner tabs.

[carbking]

I know you posted that the engine is now strong and smooth with the clone; but would highly suggest that if the rebuild shop can figure out what they did incorrectly with the Rochester, you would be better off with it rebuilt than the clone and even a full refund!

 

Jon.

[JanZverina]

Jon wrote:

"I know you posted that the engine is now strong and smooth with the clone; but would highly suggest that if the rebuild shop can figure out what they did incorrectly with the Rochester, you would be better off with it rebuilt than the clone and even a full refund!"

Jon.

 

Hi Jon:

 My experience of late, meaning the last 2-3 years as 4GCs are apparently getting thin on the ground, has been that once someone else has worked on them (and most rebuilders can tell, according to my experience), that they're considered "damaged goods" and no one wants to touch them. I'll hold on to the 4GC for sure, and yes, it would be good to find out what the problem was.

 As mentioned earlier in my ROA thread, when at first the rebuilt 4CG wasn't getting any fuel upon re-installation in my '63 Riv, the rebuilder said the 4GC was "over engineered" so he threw out the tiny springs below the floats (that's what he said, I didn't see them myself) and said it should be good to go. That's when all the sputtering and stalling began, and after a 2nd revisit with the carb installed he swore up and down that it wasn't the carb. So after two trips back there to make things right, I'm not confident he's going to make things any better. Still, I plan to let him know that the main issue was indeed the carb despite his protestations.

 

TelRiv says:

 "The DynaFlow linkage needs to be hooked up to work properly.  Throttle shafts could be swapped from an original carb.  ALSO, the carb. top plate where the choke blade sits can be swapped for an original top plate so the air filter is pointing in the proper direction with the air cleaner tabs."

 

I'll take the Riv out for a spin again but all seems to be in order. Using the factory air filter housing is not an issue but I'd like to be able to share some info with my shop if something with the DynaFlow linkage has to be done. I'm not having any drive-ability issues, but I also didn't hammer on the old girl as I drove it home. I was glad that it was pulling like a freight train on inclines and idling well in thicker traffic, which is the new norm in San Diego unless you pick your drive times carefully.   

RivNut Ed wrote:

"It would probably okay to post a picture of the entire (1960 Electra) if the rest of it looks as nice as everything in this picture."

 

I'd be glad to, but it was a 10-footer - very complete and mostly original except for a distant repaint in original colors, and was dead reliable and well cared for by a previous owner in Texas. I sold it in 2015 (to fund the '63 Riv, which to me is a landmark design) to a Finnish collector who owned an import/export business with a port in LA. He sent a local driver and flatbed to San Diego to inspect it and the buyer paid asking price on the spot. Hope he's enjoying it! During my seven-year stewardship it was accepted to the snooty La Jolla CA Concours some years back and drew a lot of interest, much to the chagrin of others. I'll dig out some pix if you want. Like the first-gen Riv, the '60 Electra was somethign else.    

 

Appreciate all your collective the input and continued education!

 

• Report post
•  

 

[JanZverina]

On 11/9/2019 at 11:25 AM, telriv said:

Yes, what Ed mentioned is for a stock replacement AFB.  The DynaFlow linkage needs to be hooked up to work properly.  Throttle shafts could be swapped from an original carb.  ALSO, the carb. top plate where the choke blade sits can be swapped for an original top plate so the air filter is pointing in the proper direction with the air cleaner tabs.

Hi telriv,

  Could you be more specific as to what should specifically be checked for when hooking up the DynaFlow linkage with an Edelbrock1406 or a non-period 4GG/AFB carb?

  I took my Riv out for an extended run last weekend, and while I don't press usually my luck by stomping on the 'GO' pedal of a 56 year-old car too often, it appears to run quite well and my nose is already sensing much reduced fuel vapors in my garage after such a run. Plus I may be getting (slightly) better MPG, although that's not a big priority for me as it's relegated to pleasure cruising and smaller runs. I'm also aware from this forum that its 20-gal tank typically means a 200-mile cruising range, with not much forgiveness.