Gas Milage and Making a Daily Driver......

[BuickNut]

Howdy Folks,

Just wondering what your mid 60's to early 70's Buicks got gas milage wise ? Also wondering what anybody might have done to make a RELIABLE daily driver, even through the winter (...not through the snow and muck though....don't need more rust than what I start with.......), and can do a 1200 mile round trip without a hitch. Any success stories there ? I've had mild success with a Buick Wagon over the summer/fall.....but the gas milage and mechanics start catching me during late fall.

I'm at the point with my truck's lack of reliability, that I either need to get a new car (don't want to pay that much money for something that's really not that special....), or do the old car thing right. Just curious.

Thanks.

[Guest]

Replace everything that will fail. That sounds simplistic, but--

I had the same problem with my '54. Kept driving it to the next parts failure.

Replace (or boil out) the gas tank and get a new sending unit. Then connect that to new fuel lines. Can't emphasize this enough!

Replace the master cylinder, brake lines (hard and soft), wheel cylinders and brake hardware. Inspect the bearings and seals, and probably plan of replacing them as well.

New fuel pump, water pump, carb rebuild, and know the alternator or generator/voltage regulator will probably be due for replacement at some point in the future.

Pull the radiator and have it flushed, rodded and pressure tested.

The last bug will be the electrical system, but short of completely re-wiring the car, there isn't much you can do.

Replacing any suspension bushings is also a good idea, from a comfort and driveability stand point, as is a front suspension rebuild.

These things will make the car reliable, though it isn't particularly cheap, fast or easy. But it beats fixing it on the side of the road!

And even if all the things I labeled look like they're fine, they'll fail. If they're good, keep them as spares. But fixing these "perishables" before they become a problem is what true reliability is all about.

Hope this helped.

-Brad

[Guest John Chapman]

I like the above post... although it would take years for me to get all that done... !

Mileage? On a Buick? Well, I've seen that the Special/Skylark won the Mobil economy run, but I've never seen better than 14-15 MPG. I think this has a lot to do with modern fuel formulations here in CA, were they expect the exhaust to be cleaner than the air that went into the car to begin with.

Buicks were never noted as economical cars to operate.

Cheers,

JMC

[gungeey]

Your policy fits mine to a "T". Fix it while it's running, keep the original part as a spare.. If I'm going to be working on a certain area (drivers side front engine compartment, for example) everything in harms way gets the make-over.

As far as gas mileage...my 2x4bbl gets about 13mpg around town, as long as I'm easy on the gas pedal...if you want to have a little excitement, well, it's gonna cost ya! I find the gas gauge works in direct correlation to the speedomter!Teh more the speedometer goes up, the faster the gas gauge goes down.

Another consideration is not only the MPG but the type of gas used. My '64 Skylark (9.0:1 compression) used Regular, but the 65 Riv (10.25:1) DEMANDS sunoco 94...plus a ¼ bottle of TEL..That adds up quick. A fun afternoon of driving will easily cost $20...worth every penny, but to run errands on a regular basis at that rate? Ouch.

[Guest brh]

I agree you have to go through each system one at a time. It took me 2 years to get my 65 to reliable. I would take one system at a time and go through it all the way. Brakes first, I don't mind if it dies but I want to be able to stop. Gas mileage on my 65 has got worse due to the newer gas and I do love to show people what an old Buick can do so I pay for it. I have the 300 with 11:1 and a 4 barrel so its easy to burn a lot of premium. She will not burn regular. Gas mileage on a Buick, well I had a 72 Centurion convert that got a whole 10miles to the gallon in the winter.

[BigFella]

Over the warmer months I drove my 70 electra all over town. Pretty much daily unless it was raining (the top doesn't stop the rain from coming in through every seal, especially the front bow). anyhow, I acquired it last year from the second owner and have pretty much been rebuilding it as I go. It breaks, it gets fixed. Here is a list of the things I've had to deal with since I started regularly driving it for the first time in about 15 years or so:

Radiator bursted at the seams. (caught it early so no damage)

- replaced radiator, all hoses, clamps, and thermostat ... the fan blade won the knuckle buster contest so the water pump stayed for now...

- replaced the distributor (driving 65 then nothing...mounting plate got caught and sheared the pins off so it was moving around with the distributor) Replaced points, condensor, plugs, wire, cap, rotor.

- took it for inspection...master cylindar leaking, steering box leaking, gas leak...old car they passed me :-)

- fuel leak was a battle for two months. every time we thought we had it something else bit the dust. Replaced carb with rebuilt model from ebay (numbers matching), dropped gas tank and cleaned, removed sending unit filter that was clogged bad enough that I only got gas through the parts that dissintegrated (no replacement I could find), replaced in-carb fuel filter alot, new fuel lines from tank to door, several patches to fuel line to get me out of highway!, replaced fuel pump.

Don't mess with this part. Do it all once the right way. It's not very expensive, just time consuming.

- replacing brakes and adjusting them (apparently the garage never saw drum brakes before and thought they should be the same width as new pads...wrong!)...new drum pads were the same width (the garage didn't do the work thank goodness)

- The suspension is next. i'm starting to lean to the drivers side even when my big butt is not in the car!

Nothing has proved yet to be overly expensive and the thought has gone through my mind to get a nice 84 lesabre or electra (when they were still big cars in the 80's) and get rid of my cherokee which gets the same gas mileage as my 455!!! If you go the way of fix it as you go, just keep an extra couple hundred bucks in reserve for correcting things. knowing a good mechanic who works for dinner helps too

If I had this to do over, I'd probably replace each system (gas, cooling, electrical (starting), suspension) one at a time before I started the daily driver routine. None are complex or very expensive to replace for a daily driver (at least for my 70 with parts still readily available at the parts store).

Any old buick is worth saving and driving!

[56Roadmaster]

A couple things can improve fuel economy, besides a light foot.

Change to cam with a little less duration and little more lift...probably hard to find for nailheads though.

Change to a little higher rear ratio

put in a 200R4 overdrive tranny-won't fit nailhead, but '67 up ok (a topic hotly debated here before)

keep the engine in good tune and make sure the idle jets are set by the lean cut off and vacuum gauge method.

[Guest]

I have had many 1960s and 1970s Buicks as daily drivers, and if taken care of, they are very dependable. My rule of thumb for a daily driver is to try to buy a fairly low mileage example (under 70,000 miles), and one that has been driven regularly (as opposed to one that has sat in the barn for 20 years and not been started). Little old ladies are excellent sources of low mileage regularly driven cars, and they rarely need a lot of going over before you can drive them every day, if you choose one well. Regularly flushing out the radiator, fresh belts, and hoses are the main things that get neglected in a little old lady car, at least in my 20-25 years of experience in buying them.

My '66 Special convertible with 340 and factory 3-speed got 16-17 mpg. My '72 Skylark convertible with 350 and automatic got 15-16mpg in daily use. My '63 LeSabre with factory 3-speed and a 401 got 17-21 miles per gallon. My '61 LeSabre with 364 and Dynaflow got 14-18 mpg. My '61 Skylark with 215 4-bbl and automatic got 17-23 miles per gallon, and was it quick....! My '77 LeSabre with 350 4-bbl. and automatic got 16-19 mpg. My '79 LeSabre with 301 and automatic got 17-21 mpg. All of these cars were daily drivers for me at one time or another over the past 20 years, and they were all very dependable. I drive conservatively, with the goal of getting good gas mileage, and not being hard on a 30 or 40-year-old-car, and I rarely get into the secondaries on a 4-barrel carburetor when I drive, if that tells you anything.

I have also had some Buicks that it was a mistake to try to use for a daily driver, because they were so expensive to run (gas-hogs): 1970 Electra with 455; 1972 Centurion with 455 (brutal on gas!); 1963 Riviera; 1964 Wildcat with 401 and automatic; 1958 Limited with 364 and Dynaflow

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Ector, Texas

[AK Buickman]

My all-year round daily driver is a 1972 Electra 225 4-dr hardtop with a California Emissions 455 CID, 4-barrel carburetor. The engine is completely stock. The car is on the road every single day of the year, hot or cold, snow or rain, etc.

I average about 13 - 14 mpg consistently during combined city and highway driving, keeping the speed at 65 - 70mph maximum. Winter driving does not seem to change my MPG too much.

Good MPG is not high on my priority list when I have the pleasure to drive a REAL Buick.

During the 42,000 miles that I have driven this car, the most annoying problem has been the repeated loosening of the protective side molding plastic inserts. I have to reglue the plastic ends down each spring.

AK Buickman, BCA #1955

[Guest]

I have to say, between my wife and I have been driving our 1965 Skylark 300 for the last 12 years every single day. I have children that live 500 miles away and have made the trip MANY times, sometimes as many as 6 times a year. I have did mileage tests and at 55 miles an hour drafting a truck I got 23! Of course at 70 like I usually drive it is about 18.

reliable? give me a break! I am horable at maintenance, I basicly don't do a thing. I change the oil, oh..hm........when I am going on a long trip usually. I tune it up.......mmmmm...when I go on a long trip or the thing starts running bad. I check the brakes....mmmm...when they start making noise. You get the idea. I have put over 180,000 miles on the car and it has NEVER left me stranded, not even close. I hop in, start it up and off I go, every single day.

Buy an old Buick, treat it "ok" and it will do ANYTHING for you.

[Guest]

I'm pretty much like AK. My '73 225 is my only car and I drive it all year. I get anywhere from 8-18 mpg. I average about 10-12 with combined city/highway driving. Last winter I drove to Florida and back and averaged about 15 doing 70-75 most of the way. I have done the brakes (rotors, calipers, front hoses, rear cylinders and hardware) and the master was almost new when I bought the car. New carb, rad and heater hoses, and ignition stuff, thats pretty much it. It still needs work, but I trust it to get where I need to go. Drove out to Pittsburgh and back couple of months ago and she did alright, well except for springing a power steering hose leak, but that was pretty minor.

[The Old Guy]

I think if you use some of the suggestions in these posts and obey the main rule( stay out of the 4 barrel) ,you can drive an old Buick very economically. If you are at all mechanically inclined,you can tune the car for mileage, and if you are really serious, you can put in the 200-4R. I have driven Buicks as a primary car for over 50 years, and did it because of something my Dad told me a Loooonnng time ago. He said" If you buy a Buick ,or a big car,you can find good cars that have been maintaind, but if you get a little car, by the time you get it they have been through three or four owners, and are junk". I would suggest an A body as they are lighter, and the 350s with a TALL gear are capable of 15-18 around town ,and 20+ on the highway.I have a 200-4R in my 455 GS and it pulls 17=18 on the highway with a 3.31 axle

[Guest]

I get 10-11 mpg consistantly with my 71 Riviera. It has a slightly bigger cam and throttle body Fuel Injection. Mine has been very reliable it has 200,000 miles on it and I put the last 60,000 on it. I am finally going to retire it from daily driver service at the end of the year. Over the summer I was putting between $200-$260 a month in gas in it, which is cheaper than a car payment. The only thing that really bothers me is filling it up every other time I drive it and parking it in crowded lots.

Some things that have left me stranded...

A hot water valve that lets water flow to the heater core when it gets a vacuum signal. The vacuum diaphram ripped and blew all the coolant out in a few minutes. The Temp idiot light came on, I pulled over, shut it off, got it towed home, got a universal fit part for $16 and fixed it in 5 minutes.

Turn signal switch broke off in the column and locked up the steering!!!

Luckily the turn signal switch is plastic so I was able to force it to turn into a parking lot while the turn signal stock chewed up the inside of my column. Hint, if the turn signal switch is sloppy don't wait(not even a week) to fix it.

Various Fuel Injection problems... The moral is that modifications take time to work out the bugs. If you want reliability find a car that is as stock as possible. Old Guy hit the nail on the head. Usually the full-size Buicks have been the least molested by gumshoe mechanics over the years.

Get AAA+ with 100 miles free towing, its only $56 a year and I have used it for myself and strangers many times.

Finally, have a back up car, either yours, your parents, or your wifes because stuff happens and your car could be down for a week or more.

I probably break down once a year and have to borrow a car for a few days but its a small price to pay for all the enjoyment and economical operation I get from my Buick

[Guest]

One other thought...

Have you looked into the 215 V8???

[BuickNut]

Thanks alot for the input guys....sounds like I was on the right track, but that my Achilles heel is/was the back-up vehicle and how much time I was spending on it to assure I NEVER had to drive the old wagon in the snow should the truck break down. I sold the Buick wagon, but was contemplating going through the steps again - sounds like I can do it and get the results as I did with my Ford wagon, and as you folks did on the Buicks.

Just out of curiosity - anybody have any experience doing this with a '50's or '40's Buick ? Yeah, I'm a glutton for punishment with this stuff...

Thanks again.

[Guest]

My favorites were the Straight 8 era cars. From the 70s thru the late 80s I had several daily drivers. All gas eaters of course.I mean think of how much iron in that Roadmaster each gallon of gas has to push!!! The 10 mpg in town to me isnt bad but the 13 on the road could be better, still I couldnt squeeze any more than that.

[Guest]

Drove my '54 every day, rain or shine, for almost two years before the clutch went out, sent metal shavings into the pilot bearing, wiped it out and killed the input shaft on my manual trans. The mileage was poor (the car has 3.91 gears in it, very poor compression in the engine and small displacement to begin with. But I'd gotten it to the point of great reliability--but all the things I mentioned above? Did them one at a time, as they broke, which is why I'll never, ever do it that way again!

For the rebuild, I'll have a '56 322 with 9.5:1 compression and some head work done, (instead of the 7.2:1 stock compression 264 Nailhead), a later '50s/early '60s GM or Ford T-85 3spd O.D. trans, and a Mopar 8 3/4 rear end with 3.20 or 3.43 gears. Original power steering and trunk-mount A/C will be added, and I'm converting to 4-wheel aluminum, self-adjust drums. When my manual (dual reservoir) drums are in tune, I'm satisified with their performance. But they have to be adjusted frequently, otherwise they're very poor. And with the conversion to aluminum drums, the performance will be better (less brake fade).

Lots of others have suggested the 455/late-model auto trans/disc brakes, and that's got a place, too. I just like totally retro cars, and I want this one to be period correct. My '56 Chevy will be modern. I don't want to lose the character of the vintage Buick.

-Brad

[The Old Guy]

I have driven my 1940 Super over 90,000 miles, and it has NEVER left me on the road. I replace a water pump and a voltage regulator in the parking lot ,but I carried the parts and was on my way.

[Puka]

My 51 Buick Super model 52 gets about 10 MPG in town and 13 MPG on the freeway as well. It's my daily driver, for good or ill. Though some drunk took out the rear door, so I take the bus and ride my bike now. Lucky for me, I live in a part of LA that it's easy to get around on public transport!

Puka

[Guest Reatta1]

I had a '70 full size Estate Wagon that got 21 mpg on the highway with a 455 and my '66 LeSabre with a 340 got 20+. Had nearly 300 thousand on it before I rebuilt it and that was due to a thermostat sticking in the closed position and severely overheating the engine. When they tore it down it was less than 10 thousandths out. I had a compression test done on it at around 200 K and was within 5 lbs of specs on all cylinders. I drove it hard but kept it serviced religiously. Car is presently under restoration. Unless you get a service history for whatever it is you are looking at It would be best to have everything on it checked out by an 'old timer' mechanic that has a lot of experience on those years.