1965 Ford Country Sedan

[65Wagon]

Hi all, 

 

My grandfather passed away recently and left me his '65 Country Sedan along with some parts and tools. I had the vehicle towed to my property and would like to get it running. The car is an auto with a 390. At some point in it's life, the engine was rebuilt. For the past two years, it's been sitting in a field under a tarp near his house. Despite that, the car appears to be in good shape. It turns over but won't start. How do I begin this process? Assume low technical knowledge but two good hands and sizable determination. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Frank DuVal]

No fuel into engine or no spark usually. Test:

 

Drop a Teaspoon (not dribble while cranking, not several ounces of gasoline) into the carburetor, then replace the air cleaner and try cranking again. Do not use starting fluid either. 

 

Still nothing, clean the ignition points. They still files for this purpose, but 600 grit wet or dry sandpaper can be used, or a razor blade depending on corrosion present.😉

 

Still nothing, time to do more troubleshooting.

 

These are typical siting disease no start causes.

[Grimy]

The points' contact surface may have acquired a glaze of oxidation, especially if they were open.  The quick-n-dirty is to give them a shot of NON-flammable solvent such as electrical contact cleaner or brake cleaner, rotate till they're closed, and draw an UNcoated business card or piece of 3x5 card through the points against their spring pressure.

[lump]

You're getting great advice here, so far. 

 

I'll add that, if an engine has a decent supply of proper fuel/air mixture, good spark, good compression, and proper timing, it cannot help but start and run. Most commonly, for a car which has been sitting for a while, the problem will be either lack of spark, or lack of fuel/air mixture. First thing I do is remove air cleaner and using a flashlight, look down into the carburetor bore I use my hand to quickly push the throttle wide open (with the ignition key in the "off" position). You should see a squirt of liquid into the throttle bores. If not, you can be sure it isn't getting fuel/air mixture. On the other hand, if you DO see liquid squirting into the throttle bores, you can ASSUME it is gasoline. But stick your finger in that throttle bore, and hit the carb linkage again. Now smell the liquid on your finger...is it gasoline? Does it smell like normal fresh gasoline? 

 

If that first test did NOT show any liquid squirting into the throttle bore of the carb, do as Frank DuVal suggested above. Then try to start it again. If the engine acts like it's going to start right up for a second or two, you now know you have a fuel problem. 

 

On the other hand, if the fuel seems to be coming through just fine, and smells nice and fresh, then you should suspect a problem with a lack of spark. Everyone has different ways of checking for this, But I like to pull a spark plug, reattach the spark plug wire to it, and clamp it to the engine somewhere so it will have a good ground. Then crank the engine for a few seconds. You should see a nice bright spark. If not, well, you begin to get the idea...

[lump]

I should add that, older cars which have been sitting around for years often, or even USUALLY have fuel delivery problems. Old steel gas tanks rust badly inside, filling fuel filters and other components with enough rust particles to block fuel supply. And gasoline today is notorious for getting "stale" if it sits in the tank for more than a few short weeks. So don't be surprised if you find a fuel delivery issue with your 390 Ford V8 engine. 

 

Good luck! 

[65Wagon]

Thank you all for the fantastic advice. I'll keep you updated as I work on it. The gas tank does appear to be at least half full with old, fouled up gas. Do I need to dispose of this gas before proceeding? How would I go about 'flushing' the fuel system? 

[lump]

23 minutes ago, 65Wagon said:

Thank you all for the fantastic advice. I'll keep you updated as I work on it. The gas tank does appear to be at least half full with old, fouled up gas. Do I need to dispose of this gas before proceeding? How would I go about 'flushing' the fuel system? 

 

If the fuel in the tank is old and stale, it has a very nasty, unattractive smell. You won't like it...and your engine won't either. But first I suggest that you should go through the steps that Frank DuVal suggested above to verify that fuel delivery is the reason your engine won't fire. Once you have confirmed that your engine tries to start when fuel is introduced at the carburetor, then there are a number of things you'll need to do. 

 

But FIRST, let me caution you that most people who are not very well experienced will underestimate the danger of gasoline, and the deadly risks to life and property if the job is not handled properly. I personally knew a young mechanic trainee who was working at a new-car dealership and one day was assigned to remove the gas tank from a customer's car. He had an old-school trouble light under the car so he could see (with metal cage and incandescent bulb). But when the tank straps were removed and he began lowering the tank, fuel flowed to one side of the tank, shifting the weight and sloshing out onto that hot light bulb. The explosion and subsequent fire killed him, and burned that dealership to the ground. If you're not experienced in working with gasoline issues on motor vehicles, please strongly consider having pro's to do that part for you. 

 

I like to verify that the fuel pump is working ok, and to check for debris in the lines, the fuel pump, and the gas tank. Personally I normally to use a clear plastic two-liter soda bottle, and put the end of the fuel line which attaches to the carburetor well inside it, so that I can be sure it won't leak or spray all over the place. (The surge-pulses of fuel can be substantial in both pressure and volume, so I use the large plastic bottle with the line end thoroughly inside it, with a rag wrapped around the opening to prevent any splashing.) Of course, I remove the coil wire completely from both the coil top and the center of the distributor cap, to be sure the engine won't try to start. Then I'll have a competent assistant crank the engine over for just a second or two, while he/she listens carefully for my command to stop. Hopefully I'll see a strong surge of fuel coming from the pump which will safely be captured inside that plastic bottle. You only need a very small amount to evaluate, like half a cup or so. Then, after switching off the engine I will hold the plastic bottle up so I can see any debris in the sample of the fuel. If it contains lots of little specks of debris inside, then you can bet that your gas tank is rusted inside, and will need to be treated. On the other hand, if the pump doesn't send strong pulses of fuel, the pump itself may be shot, and/or the fuel lines may be clogged. 

 

IF you are not absolutely sure what you're doing with that tank full of stale fuel, it might be a wise choice to have the car towed to a professional shop, and have them simply remove and empty the tank. Then you can bring the car back home, while sending the tank to a radiator shop or some other specialist, and have them boil it out and inspect it inside. If they find rusty areas inside it, but no serious risk of rusting completely through it, they can coat it inside with rust preventative, and give it back to you for re-installation. 

 

With stale gas in the tank, you can be sure that there is stale gas in the carburetor too. Many folks call this "varnish," because it becomes thick and sticky, and coats everything inside your carb. Worse yet, it clogs the tiny holes (or "jets") where gasoline must pass through to supply the engine with the correct ratio of fuel/air mixture. If there is a good carburetor shop in your area, you might be wise to remove the carburetor and take it to them for an overhaul. 

 

Check to see if there are any visible filters in the fuel line(s) which lead from the tank to the fuel pump, and from the pump to the carburetor. If so, these will likely need replaced. And while you're under the car looking for fuel filters, check carefully for any serious rust or signs of leakage from the old steel fuel lines. If in doubt, you may need to replace the lines. There are several companies which manufacture reproduction fuel lines, or you may be able to cut out a bad section of line and replace it by splicing in a new piece of steel tubing using compression unions. But again, you are dealing with a dangerous, highly explosive liquid in those fuel lines, so if a splice repair is contemplated and you aren't entirely sure of doing the job yourself, hire a pro. 

 

 

 

 

[Rusty_OToole]

Don't try to start it on old stale gas it can ruin your motor. Take an air hose and blow some air into the tank thru the filler pipe and smell what comes out. If it smells like gas you are ok. If it smells like old stinky varnish you need to clean or more likely replace the tank.

 

If the gas is dubious disconnect the fuel line at the fuel pump and connect a motorboat gas tank or gas can. You say the engine turns over, does it sound like it has compression? Check to see if it has spark, if not clean the points if they have white fur on them and check the coil is getting current, and the points are turning it on and off. You should have spark, if not let me know. If you have good spark to all plugs, it should fire with a little gas down the carburetor. While you have the plugs out you might want to squirt some oil down the plug holes. Not too much, one squirt is lots. This will lube the rings and insure that they seal, and have compression.

 

With spark and gas the engine should fire. With gas to the carb it should run. It may run rough and smoke for a few minutes but if you run it at a fast idle it should smooth out as it warms up. Be sure you have oil in the crankcase and coolant in the rad.

 

Do not monkey around or change anything until you diagnose it and know what needs to be done. It is a bad mistake to start tearing things apart and changing them. Change more than one thing at a time and you can get it so loblollied and messed up you have to star again from scratch and redo everything. I start with the assumption it ran when parked and fix things that don't work as I find them.

[JACK M]

20 hours ago, lump said:

But FIRST, let me caution you that most people who are not very well experienced will underestimate the danger of gasoline, and the deadly risks to life and property if the job is not handled properly. I personally knew a young mechanic trainee who was working at a new-car dealership and one day was assigned to remove the gas tank from a customer's car. He had an old-school trouble light under the car so he could see (with metal cage and incandescent bulb). But when the tank straps were removed and he began lowering the tank, fuel flowed to one side of the tank, shifting the weight and sloshing out onto that hot light bulb. The explosion and subsequent fire killed him, and burned that dealership to the ground. If you're not experienced in working with gasoline issues on motor vehicles, please strongly consider having pro's to do that part for you. 

 

This exact thing happened at our Ford dealership 30 or so years ago.

I don't think the guy was killed however, but every car in the shop and in the showroom was.

I am thinking that this is worded so familiarly that you must be from Oregon.

An odd coincidence is that the bowling alley next door went at about the same time. But not related.

[lump]

2 hours ago, JACK M said:

 

This exact thing happened at our Ford dealership 30 or so years ago.

I don't think the guy was killed however, but every car in the shop and in the showroom was.

I am thinking that this is worded so familiarly that you must be from Oregon.

An odd coincidence is that the bowling alley next door went at about the same time. But not related.

 

Jack, 

No, the incident I referred to was in Xenia, Ohio, in the early 1980's, if I recall correctly. The young man was a member of the Camaro club I was involved with at the time. The dealership was in an old building right in the center of town, and was never rebuilt. They moved out to the suburbs to rebuild a new dealership. It was an Olds dealer, I think. 

 

I didn't mean to shock the OP, but I'm always worried about telling folks how to work with gasoline issues on a car. The danger is real. Worse yet, most of the related problems are not very high tech, so neophytes try to undertake fuel system projects on their own. And all too often, a tragedy is the unfortunate result. 

 

 

[Frank DuVal]

Happened to Rosenthal Chevrolet right on Columbia Pike at Glebe Road in Arlington, VA in the early 90s also!  No death. 

 

On 12/30/2018 at 5:34 PM, lump said:

I remove the coil wire completely from both the coil top and the center of the distributor cap, to be sure the engine won't try to start.

 

True, the engine will not start, but my employee set a Porsche 911 on fire doing this while I had the spark plugs out to crank the engine to clear the flooded condition (something we called sitting disease in a paint shop, start, move two feet, shut off, start, move two feet, shut off over and over again. Why they couldn't push the car...). Spark jumped out of coil tower to one of the two terminals catching that now free gasoline on fire. Nothing like hearing, "yes, I disconnected the coil so it won't spark"and then whumf, the sound of gas vapor igniting. Grabbed fire extinguisher and put out fire, no damage to anything! Even told the customer what happened, that we baked his paint for him.😉

[JACK M]

Best to pull the coil wire from the distributor cap and GROUND it. Not just simply lay it against something. Use a clamp of some kind, a clothes pin maybe.

Removed from both ends will keep the engine from starting but doesn't kill the spark.

Like Frank says, the spark will jump out of the coil usually to one of the small posts on either side of the tower.

[Frank DuVal]

I disconnect the hot wire from the primary of the coil if sparks will be a problem. Also can leave the ignition on and not worry about burning up the points if trouble shooting requires key on.