R W Burgess Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Geez, Dave! What have you started here? Another Rant & Rave Thread? All this name calling from..., from who? I can't even tell who's talking to who with all these anon's running amok. Wayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Also the name calling is cute but I have been called worse. </div></div> What? I called the <span style="font-style: italic">cars</span> bone stock fluff wads, now the last time I checked, a car can't type. But now to the serious stuff: The point I was trying to make was that if you are going to champion the cause of bone stock original cars, then do it. Modification in ANY form is modification, plain and simple. No matter if your changing the braking system or the whole drive train. Let's be consistent here, you CANNOT have it both ways(ie: down on rods and up on your OWN modifications to serve your OWN needs). I cannot stand it when someone holds a perspective of "well, if I just do this ONE little thing, that won't hurt, it's still ALL original", NO it's NOT. An "original" car is ALL original, not modified in ANY way. There again, it's up to the person spending the money on the car they bought with thier own money. PERIOD. NOW DAVE, if I am a CLOWN for challenging your WISHY WASHY stance on this, then fine. You come off as anti hot-rod, BONE STOCK ORIGINAL to the maximum, and now your backpeddling and saying that you have quote "been the guy on this forum getting flack for advocating too much in updating saftey in our antiques". GIVE me a BREAK! A modification is a modification, no matter HOW much SPIN you spinmeisters want to put on it, no matter if it's the braking system or chopped and rodded. For heaven sake, BE CONSISTENT if your going to champion this cause, don't keep changing your stance just to win the debate. I talk about crappy suspension systems, and then you guys hit the roof ALL WHILE YOU HAVE MODIFIED YOUR OWN! HOW NICE AND HIPPOCRITICAL! Get in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Oh, by the way, this last post is how I REALLY feel on the subject. I won't be posting on it again Dave, so you have all the time in the world to spin your way around my points. Just another 'anonymous' you guys don't have to keep track of. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Anon,You are confused. I never advocated absolutely bone stock cars. By your standard the first time the plugs are changed it is modified. And that is just plain silly. And I have never told others what they can do with their cars. Right, wrong, or indifferent if they paid for it I don't have any say in what they choose to do with it. But at the same time I have never been a fan of all out modifcation to original cars. You don't seem to have much perspective on the issue of stock vs modified particularly when comes to driving antique cars. The 1928 DB I mentioned earlier is almost 100% stock and low mileage. It came from the factory with 4 wheel hydraulic brakes, an all steel body, a six cylinder engine with seven main bearings and full pressure. It is a very sturdy and roadworthy car. And what about the couple who is traveling from South America to the Continental US in a 1928 Graham Paige. Are they crazy? What would really be instructive is to know what you drive. Do you drive unmodified cars? I gather not from your rather pointed comments.ASW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Anon, there's a big difference in a complete driveline change and making a modification that can be easily undone and brought back to original by a future owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Like JT just said, there's a big difference between a driveline replacement and a subtle modification that can be undone to return to stock.And there's a third flavour of modification, one that I'm quite comfortable with, the "coulda beens" (which ideally have JT's characteristic of being possible to convert back to totally original).For example, the seatbelts on my 1912 KisselKar. This is a car that is driven year 'round, at cruising speeds of 50+ mph and very often at night. Obviously, seatbelts are a prudent precaution.So, if somebody had the revolutionary idea of seatbelts in 1912, how would they go about it? I went to a local harnessmaker and commissioned a set. They are made of black garment leather (wrapped and sewn around 1.5" wide nylon webbing I purchased at a camping supplies store - shhhh) and have sturdy traditional style nickle-plated buckles. Holes every 2" allow for a variety of stomach sizes. The belts bolt to solid frame crossmembers with hidden grade 8 fasteners. The visible ends can quickly be tucked under the seat cushions for show. The belts also perform the valuable function of tie downs for luggage/shopping etc.The iceing on the cake is that the firm that made these belts has been in business in our city for over 90 years, and handstamped each belt with the inscription "Welsh Brothers Saddlery, Establshed 1908, Edmonton, Alta". How much more period-authentic can you get?(By the way, anyone who wants to try this belt strategy in an early car is stongly advised not to use actual harness belting as I did originally ? the black dyes will rub off on your niece's new white dress and cause your sister-in-law to get very, very annoyed!)Along the same vein, this winter I am adding a cup holder - made from a WW1 shell casing set into a hand forged bracket, attached to the bottom of the seat overhang ? easily reversable, and made with the techniques and materials of the period.It's a free world and anyone can do whatever they please with their cars ? I just want to encourage modifications being not only reversable, but also sympathetic to the period in material, construction, and appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amphicar BUYER Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Chris_Bamford has the right idea! My '64 Amphicar has some minor mods as well. I have retained all original parts and refuse to drill holes where there were none from the factory. I have a period radio with the CD changer (operates through the antenna lead) tucked under the seat . When I built my hand controls (I am paralized) for the 4 speed, I used period pieces for the conversion. Everything can easilly be changed back to stock with sinple hand tools. You can have your cake and eat it too! John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Davis (MODEL A HAL) Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 I suppose you have to be real careful where you drill holes in an Amphicar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted October 22, 2002 Author Share Posted October 22, 2002 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Get in the real world. </div></div> The one where trying to draw strained absolutes and protraying your opponents views as something they're not can make you look foolish, maybe? We'll try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 Your just mad Dave because somebody showed you up. You might as well just admit it and eat some crow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JT Posted October 22, 2002 Share Posted October 22, 2002 John & Chris, Nice touch and very innovative ideas on the custom belts and shifter. I put belts in my Packard and really hated putting new holes in the frame and floor to mount but there was no way around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted October 23, 2002 Author Share Posted October 23, 2002 For the record, I'm not the least bit angry. The annoymous posts here have illustrated something I've been trying to get accross to the members of the AACA on this forum literally for years. Namely that the mission and purpose of the organization of late is becomming increasingly distant from the main body of the car hobby in general. The ideas that were expressed on this thread (e.g. authentic cars are slow, unsafe, dull, etc.; <span style="font-style: italic">any</span> modification of a stock car disqualifies it as an authentic restoration; owners of authentically restored cars are narrow minded elitists; etc.) are plainly apparant in much of the hot rod literature and community (both of which are <span style="font-style: italic">much</span> larger and more influential than our own). There are huge economic powers behind the current hot rod craze, and people are being influenced by and taught to believe things that are simply untrue. Whether Mr. Annonymous's thoughts were his own or created for entertaining antagonistic purposes doesn't matter. I would hope that his posts, while not illegal or necessarily wrong in any way, are seen as obviously contrary to what this organization is all about. <span style="font-style: italic">(And in case anyone's wondering, I most certainly <span style="font-weight: bold">did not</span> invent him to make my points for me!!!)</span> It's been my experience that in a room full of hobbiests (let's say Eastwood customers, for instance), more people will be of Mr. Annonymous's mind than of my own. And as a result, the erosion of the body of quality antique cars to the hot rod contingent is accelerating rapidly. This is <span style="font-weight: bold"> [color:\\"red\\"] NOT </span> to say that <span style="font-style: italic">restorable</span> cars are being lost. That has always happened. Instead we are increasingly seeing <span style="font-style: italic">restored</span> cars being taken. Even worse (by my count) there seems to be a deliberate attempt to take the rarest models (perhaps in a desperate attempt to seem original).Since this perspective obviously can't be outlawed, it <span style="font-style: italic">has</span> to be fought in order to protect the cars we've spent our time and money preserving. Combatting the propaganda that Mr. Annonymous has so obviously swallowed I think is our best recourse. I believe that overcomming our collective agoraphobia (remember that thread?? ) is the best recourse we have, <span style="font-style: italic"> [color:\\"brown\\"] and that's what I'm after! </span>-----------------------------------------Also, while I'm still here, I do regret using the word "clown" in the previous post. I was in a hurry, and didn't take the time to re-edit it after I finished typing. I don't think is was appropriate or necessary. We all can come to our own conclusions without such loaded language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 Could someone help me roll this horse over, I think it is done on this side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted October 23, 2002 Share Posted October 23, 2002 How do you roll over ashes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 this is a great forum, first time here..and saw this thread and caught my interest. although i respect both antique and rodded cars..I dont seem to understand the difference of "modification" you guys speak of..a seat belt that although very important in a car these days(not at all available 65 or 70 years or before..much less a cd player,etc. and another thing..everything a rodder could do to a "original" car could be redone if the future owner decided to put the money into it..from finding nos chassis,rear ends to fixing a chop,channel or anything else. there was a article in one of my Early Ford V-8 Times publications where a purist found a street rodded '36 Cabriolet..chopped and everything else..rebuilt to original..so imo..there is a bit of hypocrisy with some of your ideas on "what can be modified to be accepted by the purist" or not.I have a'37 Ford Club Coupe..a pretty rare body style in the states..that when i bought it..wasnt altogther original..different model flathead,hydro brakes,etc..and I plan on building a traditional '50's resto rod..sorry about the long ramblings..but this caught my eye.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex98thdrill Posted October 26, 2002 Share Posted October 26, 2002 No that's cool. Of course I'd like to see the car not get chopped and channeled, I'd still probably like the car either way if it was tastefully done. The one thing that no one has addressed is rims. In 1977 you could buy a brand new chevy monte carlo, and you could go to an auto parts store and buy Cragar S/S mag wheels back then. With those rims on one of those cars, would that make the car modified? Those rims would be authentic of the period, but it still seems like there is a fine line between modified and stock that no one will probably ever solve. The thing to do is decide what you want, do it, and don't worry about what anybody else wants either way. I've managed to acquire a lot of original parts from cars that have been "rodded" that have worked to my advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 Just thought you guys might want to see this thread on top again. Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketraider Posted November 13, 2002 Share Posted November 13, 2002 For God's sake, why? We'd left it behind and moved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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