JJ62 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) Hi. I'm new to the group. I'm looking at buying what appears to be a '65 Riviera GS with a LW code 425 numbers matching engine as stamped on the valley pan. I'm wondering how rare these are. It's Silver Cloud color with a vinyl top and has all of the GS badging, special upholstery, etc. Most of the articles that I have seen online say that all GS models had the dual carb engine. One article that I can not find now said that some were made with a single carb. And I know some non-GS models were made with the dual carb engine. This car does have a small plaque that says something like "Specially made for Jon Doe". Thoughts? Edited September 23, 2018 by JJ62 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) EVERY real, authentic, true 1965 Gran Sport will have an engine code stamped LX. The LW code is for a single four barrel 425. There are other ways of identifying the Gran Sport as well but if the engine is STAMPED, not cast, with an engine serial number that matches the VIN, and an engine production code number of LX, then you can pretty well be assured that it is a true Gran Sport. Gran Sport is not a model but an option. That A9 option included the A8 engine package (Two four barrel carbs, a distributor with a different curve, etc. etc.) It would also have a BS coded transmission (firmer and higher shift points), and a 3.42 positive traction differential. ALL the rest is window dressing which is easily duplicated (forged by unscrupulous sellers.) On the Riviera Owners website www.rivowners.org , there is a link to 'How to Identify a Gran Sport.' It's a quick read, very factual, and easily understood. DO NOT let anyone tell you there was anything different in the way of a Gran Sport. It's the engine/transmission that makes a Gran Sport, not the external bling. Ed Edited September 23, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ62 Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 RivNut, thanks for your reply. I have read other posts by you on this forum and I value your opinion. I understand everything that you are saying. But could the car have been custom ordered with the single 4 barrel engine? I did not check to see if the transmission was BS coded. Does the plaque mean anything? Have you seen other Rivieras with that plaque? It was about 1 1/2 inches long by 3/4 inch wide. I did not take a picture of the plaque, otherwise I would post it. Regardless, it seems to be a somewhat rare car with the 425 engine and vinyl top. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 There were a few non-Gran Sports equipped with the A9 engine option. When delivered, the buyer of every Riviera got a package that included the plaque that could be sent back to Buick in Flint to be inscribed with the owner's name. No "special upholstery". There were two upholstery packages, standard and custom. They could be ordered either way. The custom had full length wood grain panels on the door and two door handles per door and a full length arm rest. The majority of Riviera sold came with the custom upholstery. Nothing special for the Gran Sport though. The vinyl top was an option for 1965. They came in black only. Silver was a popular color for the 1965 Riviera. On the Fisher Body plate (on the firewall above the brake booster) there will be a 2 following the paint code if the vinyl top was a factory top. In 1965 the standard engine was single four barrel 401 (code LT), the single four barrel 425 (code LW) was an option. Interestingly there were more LX engines produced in 1965 than LW engines. So even though there were fewer produced, they're not nearly as desirable as the LX equipped Gran Sport. Sounds as if someone either doesn't know what he's trying to sell or is trying to pull the wool over the eyes of an uneducated buyer. You're now educated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 There were 445 Super Wildcat engines built above the amount included with the Gran Sport option. Does the glove box have a plaque that says Riviera Gran Sport. The plaque on the lower center console should say "Custom built for XXX", for 1965. 1963 and 1964 would say "Especially built for XXX" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 You need to remember that a 1962 Plymouth Valiant station wagon is rare, but that does not make it desirable or worth much. If the car is priced as a non Gran Sport, and is in good condition, it's worth something just as a Riviea but don't pay Gran Sport prices for it just because someone tells you it's "rare" This car may be desirable but it's not rare. You can get other opinions but it would be really helpful to post some pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, JJ62 said: RivNut, thanks for your reply. I have read other posts by you on this forum and I value your opinion. I understand everything that you are saying. But could the car have been custom ordered with the single 4 barrel engine? I did not check to see if the transmission was BS coded. Does the plaque mean anything? Have you seen other Rivieras with that plaque? It was about 1 1/2 inches long by 3/4 inch wide. I did not take a picture of the plaque, otherwise I would post it. Regardless, it seems to be a somewhat rare car with the 425 engine and vinyl top. Jim The car could have been ordered with the LW engine. But there was nothing like an A9 delete option for an otherwise equipped Gran Sport. You should take a bunch of pictures, post them, and let everyone analyze them. Worst car scenario = it was a Gran Sport and someone swapped in a LW engine. Not worth more than any other non matching numbers Riviera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 14 minutes ago, RivNut said: There were a few non-Gran Sports equipped with the A9 engine option. Wouldn't that have been the A8 option Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivman Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, psychostang said: There were 445 Super Wildcat engines built above the amount included with the Gran Sport option. Does the glove box have a plaque that says Riviera Gran Sport. The plaque on the lower center console should say "Custom built for XXX", for 1965. 1963 and 1964 would say "Especially built for XXX" Actually it was 454 non-GS that had the LX 425, not far off, but anyway. As Ed said, there were more Gran Sport Rivieras than those with the single 4 BBL 425, 3354 GSs and 2311 with the LW 425. But, even though there were less produced they will never reach the value of the '65 Riviera GS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Rivman said: Wouldn't that have been the A8 option Ed? Yes Thanks for the correction, A9 was the code for the Gran Sport option which included the A8 code engine. I've edited the error in the original post. Ed Edited September 23, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Yes, that's what I meant. Fat fingers strike again! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Basically you need to ask to see the posi tag hanging off differential, also stamping that shows posi code (should be a PY right for a 3.42? also circle with X), and the transmission plate for BS. Its easy enough to put some GS badging on a non-GS certainly and the custom plate basically means little to nothing regarding actual custom orders. Most likely not an original GS, but doing the detective work is essential if you want to get to the bottom of it... Good things its the 425 instead of the 401. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ62 Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 It is a numbers matching car, so it appears it is not a GS. I thought I might have found something rare, but I guess not. The car is 1 1/2 hours away so I'm not going to pursue it any further. It needed a lot of work anyways and I prefer other exterior colors over the silver. Thanks to all of you for responding. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 JJ, would you mind posting the ad, just so we can look at it? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) At least you found out up front. Watch the forum where guys post Rivieras for sale on CL and eBay. Lots of cars posted and lots of comments; both pro and con. There are some cars posted from Facebook as well. Edited September 23, 2018 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ62 Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 The last 2 pictures are of the parts car. It has all of the GS badges except for the one on the back left side of the car. The holes are there but they were covered up before paint. It's a solid car, needs trim put back on, some interior work, carb rebuilt, PS pump leaks, brake work. https://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/d/1965-buick-riviera-gs-trimmed/6699722466.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psychostang Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Ha, I just noticed that he has small script gran sport on the front fenders. This does not match the large script gran sport which is supposed to be on the left side of the tail panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carbuff2 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Sorry, this is not a Gran Sport. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 ? I just looked at the link and noticed how the guy phrased his listing. GS "trimmed." He knowns damned good and well this is not a Gran Sport. Caveat Emptor. Plus he's way over priced for what he does have. Now someone is going to have to fill the emblem holes and repaint the fenders and the rear panel. That too should be taken into consideration when negotiating a price. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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