1960 Borg Dash Clock

[avgwarhawk]

I have a repeat offender(clock) blowing 2 amp fuses supplying the Borg dash clock in my 60 Electra.  I have tried several clocks.  All known good, oiled and working.  All work fine for a few days then blow the fuse.  Is this inherent to the Borg clock were some worked great for 6 months after purchase of the new car and others that run...well...like a clock for years on end?   Any suggestions.  I have considered getting the quartz kit but I like the tic-tic-tic-tic...rewind....tic-tic-tic.       

[old-tank]

Maybe a little heavier rated FUSE.  

[avgwarhawk]

I was reading up on amp draw and the battery needing 12v, etc.  2 amp fuse suggested.   Maybe give it a try. 

[Beemon]

Something is making it draw more current than it should. You could go up from a 2 amp fuse, but that doesn't solve the problem. Are the contacts on the rewind welding shut and creating a current draw? Is the ground clean?

[avgwarhawk]

I have cleaned up all connections. Contact rewind points are clean and not welding upon contact. Happens with two clocks.     

[Beemon]

Are you using an AGA fuse instead of an AGC or SFE? Something is resistive in the current circuit that is drawing more amps than intended (2 amps). The original wire is 18 gauge, unless its been replaced? Is it solid to the fuse panel?

[avgwarhawk]

AGA fuse. Original wiring. Original fuse block. Only blows when clock is running. Assumed it the clock. Replaced with a known good clock. Fuse blown after running a day or so. 

[Beemon]

My point is that if there second clock blew a fuse, then it cannot be the clock and rather the wiring. Or, they're cheap fuses and they cannot handle the momentary load of the clock being rewound. From experience, some glass fuses I've used are weaker than others. By observation, the weak ones usually come from Autozone while the stronger ones came from the hardware store. 

 

Up behind the dash, the wire could have broken through the insulation and every time it grounds to metal it would blow the fuse, too. 

 

In this scenario, you've demonstrated that the clocks are not to blame since the conditions are a repeat offender. 

[KongaMan]

Hook up a test circuit with a spare battery or other 12V source, a clock, and a 2A fuse.  See how long the clocks run there.

 

As suggested above, one might suspect that the issue is not with the clocks.  I don't have access to a 1960 wiring diagram, but is there anything else on that circuit?  If not, you might check that all connections are good and clean with a solid ground, and you might check for resistance in the wiring between the clock and fuse box or the clock and ground.

Edited August 21, 2018 by KongaMan (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

7 minutes ago, Beemon said:

My point is that if there second clock blew a fuse, then it cannot be the clock and rather the wiring. Or, they're cheap fuses and they cannot handle the momentary load of the clock being rewound. From experience, some glass fuses I've used are weaker than others. By observation, the weak ones usually come from Autozone while the stronger ones came from the hardware store. 

 

Up behind the dash, the wire could have broken through the insulation and every time it grounds to metal it would blow the fuse, too. 

 

In this scenario, you've demonstrated that the clocks are not to blame since the conditions are a repeat offender. 

 

Yes, my thoughts exactly with the same issue when a second clock is installed.   But, forgot that I had installed a 3rd clock that worked flawlessly  for weeks on end. I changed to a new battery and that clock never worked again.  I did order some 3 amp AGA.   Will check over the wiring once again.   Other then that...I'll get a wristwatch.         

[old-tank]

57 minutes ago, Beemon said:

Or, they're cheap fuses

That would be my guess, since they have caused me lots of aggravation and exercise.  Set up the test as suggested and also try a modern blade fuse.

[avgwarhawk]

Received AGA 3 amp.  Removed the blown 2 amp.  Then proceeded to arc weld my small screwdriver I used to remove the fuse. ?   Installed the 3 amp.  Clock did the rewind as it should.  Has worked for 18 hours.  Usually in a day or two the fuse will blow.  So, time will tell.  Pun intended.    

[avgwarhawk]

Still ticking. Time time ticking ticking away....

[EmTee]

Final answer: 3 Amperes?

[avgwarhawk]

2 hours ago, EmTee said:

Final answer: 3 Amperes?

 

Case not closed as yet.  If she is running after 3 days I would say the 3 amp was the answer.   

[buick man]

… well perhaps you need to not have the 12 volt current connected while removing and installing the fuse to the clock due to internal clock component requirements - This is the procedure when dealing with this tiny fuse on the 1957 Buick or if not followed causes problems within the clock itself as per the Buick manual …. and I am going on memory here but the fuse may blow as well as causing harm internally to a key time governing component ….

[avgwarhawk]

28 minutes ago, buick man said:

… well perhaps you need to not have the 12 volt current connected while removing and installing the fuse to the clock due to internal clock component requirements - This is the procedure when dealing with this tiny fuse on the 1957 Buick or if not followed causes problems within the clock itself as per the Buick manual …. and I am going on memory here but the fuse may blow as well as causing harm internally to a key time governing component ….

 

The procedure I have read in the manual to start the clock is either use the battery cable(touch neg terminal to spark and remove) to energize the clock to wind itself.  Let it wind down and then reconnect the battery cable.  This can also be done at the fuse block using the fuse.    There is no issue starting the clock with this procedure.   The original clock was apparently an issue as the glove box contained  one box of fuses.  AGA 2 amp or 2 amp fuses just not up to the task.  I found a replacement clock that work well for weeks.  I then replaced the battery under the hood.  Did the restart procedure for the clock and no joy.  Once again, found a clock in good order and still in the dash.   Works great for a few days then blows the 2 amp fuse.  Possible a surge in volts or volt drop when starting the car?   Not sure.  The clock with the 3 amp fuse is working now 2 days.  I have driven the Buick today.  Clock continues to run.  The coming days may prove the 3 amp is good to go or the positive wire to the clock has much resistance.  

Edited August 24, 2018 by avgwarhawk (see edit history)

[EmTee]

7 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

The coming days may prove the 3 amp is good to go or the positive wire to the clock has much resistance.

 

Or maybe there is somewhat higher mechanical load on the wind motor due to wear, or the mechanism needs cleaning and/or lubrication?

[avgwarhawk]

6 minutes ago, EmTee said:

 

Or maybe there is somewhat higher mechanical load on the wind motor due to wear, or the mechanism needs cleaning and/or lubrication?

 

The inner movement has been cleaned and lubed with appropriate watch/clock oil. The contact points are clean and do not appear to be welding themselves together.  Still ticking day two. 

[EmTee]

I'm leaning toward the difference being the contemporary 2A fuse vs. the ones that were sold 50 years ago.  Either the old ones were biased toward higher amperage, or the current ones are held much closer to 2 Amperes.

[Beemon]

If you look at some of the cheap glass fuses they sell at AutoZone, they're awful in construction and very cheap feeling. I was blowing glass fuses left and right until I found a NOS pack of Atlas fuses my grandfather had in the basement. The ones I couldn't find I bought from NAPA and they were considerably better condition than the ones from AutoZone. The fuses from the local department store also seemed to be of a heavy duty. If I recal, it had more to do with the cement to hold the fuse together failing and burning the fuse out than the actual line, like they're not made for sudden increase in voltage or huge voltage spikes associated with a points based electrical system (ignition points, voltage regulator points, clock points... all going to have a huge voltage fall off when the current tries to arc as the points separate).

[buick man]

Just like  John Cameron Swaze said…. it takes a lick'n … but keeps on ticking ...

Edited August 25, 2018 by buick man (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Clock continues to run on the 3 amp.  

[EmTee]

I call that a 'win'! 

[avgwarhawk]

22 hours ago, EmTee said:

I call that a 'win'! 

 

Concur.  Still ticking.