Guest Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 Got a funky noise in engine...not sure if its a lifter not pumped up or a dead one...new motor as ya all know...Car sounds pretty good from behind, sounds like a deep down noise....if I didnt know better I would guess a dying rod type noise, that or a lifter...Do these cars have a "particular" noise they have that may seem bad, but is normal for the nature of the beast???<P> If anyone in North Cascades Chapter has one, or know of anyone in the club that would be able to give it a listen to for diagnosis...Even if you dont live in the area, if you are familiar with these cars and the tune they sing, let me know....<P><BR> Thanks, don55<P> dlw29@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 Hi Don<BR>Glad you got it running! Lifters on all of my 322's have taken a long time to pump up and get quiet ( how long has it been running? ) Give it time unless it is real bad or getting worse.<BR>Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 Don,<BR> <BR>Congrats on getting "fire in the hole". My 322 makes a little noise, only if I let it sit for more that a week at a time. I suspect that on mine, the oil has drained off the lifters and valve train. This occurs for about 10 seconds.<P>On Yours, does the noise change in frequency or volume with engine speed? Does it occur in gear and on neutral? Does it ever go away?<P>Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 17, 2000 Share Posted December 17, 2000 My 2 favorite 55 friends...gosh I feel all gushy!!!! LOL!!! <BR> The noise hasnt gone away at all, but it sounds good as I said if Im at the rear of car. But even with hood shut it is a pronounced noise....Ran for approx. a total of 1-1 1/2 hours as the idle and other stuff on the carb was adjusted as when I first fired it it had a REALLY high RPM speed, needless to say it got shut down pronto, but it starts up at a not so high idle and settles itself down after car is up to temp.<P> Any ideas on my P/B problem???? I have a spare vac. ck valve....the one inline that is before the master/booster assy and after the rubber connection...it bolts to frame under drivers feet essentially...<P> If either of you can, give me a shout in a bit....I got a couple errands to do, but am home all day after.<P> Thanks, don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 Don<P>Sounds like a bad lifter, or problem with a push rod. You stated you used '56 lifters & push rods. The '56 cam is larger and the push rods are shorter than the '55. If you used your old heads and block this could be the problem. <P>If you did not pre oil the lifters, this could be a problem too. Try listening with a length of heater hose, as a stethascope, to determine where the noise is originating.<P>Marvel Mystery Oil poured in the valve cover, as well as in the crankcase may also help. I would try half a can in the cover, and perhaps up to a qt. in the crankcase.<P>Good Luck with it, keep us updated.<P>Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guy Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 I thought that 55 cams and 56 lifters were not compatible. I thought they changed from a forged to a cast cam, which required the lifters to be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 The Old Guy....I used 56 valvetrain thruout...cam,lifters and pushrods...new everything under the sun...rocker assys.,full set of valves(exhaust are..were NOS!!)<P> cams betw. 55 & 6 are different mat'ls, thats why if you use one cam, you gotta use that yrs. lifters and pushrods...the lifters are different hts. which means pushrods are also different..<P> any other advice?? don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurion Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 Don,<P>Hope you received my e-mail last night about the club member in Woodinville with the nice '55 Century. I think he will be more than willing to help in any way he can. If you failed to receive the e-mail, please feel free to call me during the day at 360 653-3634 or evenings at 360 691-2802.<P>--Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Stoneberg Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 How do you preoil the lifters ?<BR>Is this something that has to be done with new hyd lifters ?<BR>Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted December 19, 2000 Share Posted December 19, 2000 Bill<P>To pre-oil the lifters: This means you imerse them upside down in a bucket of oil, and with the pushrod inhand. <P>Push the pushrod into the bottom of the lifters, therby colapsing the lifters and causing them to suck in oil. You want to do this several times to insure oil gets into the lifter.<P>If you do not do this, you run the risk of the lifters not filling up quick enough, durring the inital running of the engine, and they could fail.<P>Scott <BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted December 20, 2000 Share Posted December 20, 2000 Scott<BR>On the lifters I bought for my 55 it was specifically recommended NOT to pre-oil...check with the manufacturer before hand.<P>Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Update: I pulled top end of engine apart last night to look at lifters and cam....lifters have been getting really hammered...Whatever temper they had is gone and are pitted....cam appears okay.<BR> I got ahold of Classic where I bought the lifters amongst other parts and I asked them what line they use for their lifters. <BR> I was told they use Dynagear(which I've never heard of) and Echlin, who made the pushrods I have too, but I am wondering if anyone out there knows of a big name company who makes these relativly generic lifters...Crane??? Comp. Cams???....Let me know and how the story played out be it good or bad.<BR> I got another set from Buick Spec. and these look much better...got a couple extra grooves to help pull oil in the bores.<BR> I feel a bit better, but am crossing my fingers and toes that this fixes the problem....I noticed that I MAY also have an oiling travel problem getting to the top end as when I pulled the left rocker assy, oil was a running out the stands as I removed it...RH one was virtually dry...not dripping out of the rocker like the left one did. <BR> Got good oil pres. but oil that is up top is gray as it has mixed with the assy. lube on the valve stems, but crankcase oil is clean....I dumped oil on each part before I closed it up so I wouldnt have a dry start up, but I am just curious what you guys think. Valve covers were only lighty showered with oil...entire surface on inside on BOTH covers not wet , appears to be the oil from me bathing the head that has been thrown around.<BR> Is there a direction that these redone rocker assys. need to be to get oil flow...I know originals had that index notch in front, what about these???<BR> This time, b4 I close the rockers up, Im gonna spin it around to make sure I'm getting full vavle movement and am gonna run it a bit open to see if Im getting oil and how much up top....dumb question, but here goes...the small holes on each rocker arm itself, Is this for the oil to come out from the shaft or what???<P> PLease advise Guys ))<P> dlw29@hotmail.com<P><BR> Should I pre-oil these lifters....I did the others but I had lifter right side up with p/rod worked by palm of hand ....makes for sore palms too....Let me know ...<P> Thanks Very Much Guys, don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted December 21, 2000 Share Posted December 21, 2000 Don,<BR> <BR>You want to pre lube the lifters with a Molly Lube on the surface that touched the cam. This is for break in. Run the engine approx 1800-2000 rpm for approx 1/2 hr to ensure break in.<P>Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Brink Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 Don,<P>Re your lack of oil circulation to one side, et al. I'll dig out my '55 shop manual (or the '54 if I find it first - been a long time since I looked at either) to refresh my memory and give you a blow by blow for how to start up a fresh engine as well as looking at a diagram of the oil flow (a lack of which could be caused by a head gasket installed upside down - or defective [missing an oil hole]) to see if there may be anything of use to you. If what I find is involved, very lengthy, etc. and a copy of the pertinent pages would be of help I would be more than willing to copy and mail to you.<P>Stay warm (glad I don't have to put with 32 degree days here in So. Calif.).<P>Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 Gene, Thanks very much for your help in this project. I took notes as I put heads on about the oil holes in gasket...it is a FelPro set...from my chickenscratch I only seen the 3 tiny holes in the rear of gasket...a bolt hole, oil hole and I believe a water hole....But if you just happen to have a head gasket floating around take a peek at it and see what you think...I thought it to be kinda odd at the arrangment of holes and dblcked b4 I set heads on and all seemed well as I tried flip flopping the gaskets around and they only went on one way as the cylinders wouldnt line up otherwise...now if they didnt put the correct holes in all the places, I dont know...maybe I should go get a used gskt from a bone yard to compare...the kit did say it is for 53-66 V-8....<BR> Let me know....<P> dlw29@hotmail.com<P> Thanks, don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Brink Posted December 27, 2000 Share Posted December 27, 2000 Don,<P>Found the '55 manual first! A few things it covers may be the cause of your problem. They are: (Text in "" directly from manual.)<P>1) "The rocker arms and valves on each cylinder head are supplied with low pressure oil from the valve lifer oil gallery through connecting passages drilled in the front end of cylinder block and head." As you have good lubrication on one head you know you are pumping oil. My thought on this was a defective head gasket although I have never seen a FelPro gasket that was made incorrectly so would assume that it is okay. On to #2.<P>2) "The oil passage in cylinder head ends in a counterbored recess surrounding the bolt which attaches the rocker arm shaft front bracket. The oversize bolt hole through the bracket permits oil to flow up into the hollow rocker arm shaft, which is plugged at both ends." It has been years (and years....) since I pulled a nailhead apart. It may be possible that - a) replacement bolt(s) were used to attach the rocker assembly and that the bolts are too large [shaft size] and do not permit oil to pass through; a remanufactured rocker assembly that does not have the correct front bracket piece that is drilled to allow oil to pass through it.<P>3) "...shaft so that the notch on one end of shaft is upward in line with bolt heads. This places the oil holes on lower side of shaft in proper relationship to rocker arms." Stock units have a notch in the end of the shaft. This notch has to be "up" in order for oil holes to be lined up properly. If it is not properly aligned the oil will not flow.<P>I have copied some pages from the manual so you can see exactly what Buick had to say regarding valve train. If you would like for me to mail them to you let me know. You can e-mail me your address at:<P>gene.brink@disney.com<P>Good luck,<P>Gene<BR> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 yes. modern lifters need preload. i would assume the 55 is no different.<P>what made you change to shorter pushrods? that seems like it is only a good idea if you have changed the cam, and the entire valve/rocker assembly, AND the mounting points for all these parts are in exactly the same position as the 56.<P>try running the longer rods on only one cylinder first <P>allan<P>------------------<BR>allan<BR>--------------<BR>50 special, 455/th400<BR>64 stude gt hawk, 289/auto<BR>76 poncho GP, 400/th400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Brink Posted December 28, 2000 Share Posted December 28, 2000 Don,<P>No adjustment to preload like Chevy, et al. I think the same net result comes from the check ball travel relationship coupled with the leakdown rate (12-40 seconds so the machining is pretty close).<P>re: Pushrods. 1/8" is a lot given valve lash adjustments are measured in thousandths but given you used '56 stuff throughout I would expect everything to be okay (as further evidenced by one side working okay).<P>Unless the machine work on one head is not correct it must be an oil flow problem on the one side.<P>Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scott mich bca # 6619 Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Don,<P>You almost got it. I would call the tech advisor Art Lostumo @ 847-455-9119 or e mail him at dynaflash@aol.com.<P>Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DugsSin Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Don, Were all the lifters damaged pretty much the same?<BR>Exhaust valves for 55 and 56 have different stock #'s.I don't know what the difference is between them? Just my observations. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 Lifter/noise update, pt.3: Got new lifters, better looking than others as mentioned above. Ran it last night for a short while at low RPM's...maybe 1000-1500 R's...maybe 10 minutes total....lifters pumped up fine as we ran it w/o valve covers on....Its getting oil up top, but with a cylinder at TDC I can spin the pushrods by hand and have been told thats not correct, that the lifters need a bit of preload in order to work the ball and spring and so on in the lifter. <BR> These are 56 pushrods...8 1/4" long, cant move them up & down with cyl. at top dead center, can spin the rods pretty easily. I have thought about putting the original 55 rods back in and checking the noise scenario. 55 rods are 8 3/8" long...an 1/8th" difference.<BR> What do you guys think????Should the lifters have a little preload like Chevys or what???? Please advise.<BR> dlw29@hotmail.com<P> Thanks, don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 29, 2000 Share Posted December 29, 2000 The nightmare continues...<BR> I have a core block from my parts car I got in which I also used the heads off of as I was gonna go with the hardened seats but wasnt aware of the thin casting problem so I used the other heads with a std grind. both engines had never been apart, or appeared so from the crud and all as well as the steel shim head gskts on both...<BR> I got to looking at the block I got last night and my little dwg I made of the FelPro gskt I used and how it went on...I am of the impression there is a possibility I got them on backwards...I dont know how as I monkeyed with this for about a half hour when I was inst'ling heads initially...you flip them one way and the cylinders dont line up, the other they do, werent marked L or R or "This side up" or anything...My drawing shows the oil hole in the rear of the head gasket, my core motor has the hole up front...I am gonna go digging to try to find the pic I took of my shortblock to see where its hole is....Even if it is on right I would know that there was no problem there...I wonder if the difference between the crushed ht of the steel shim gskt vs. the crushed ht. of the felPro would be enough to account for my being able to tighten the rods up and not be able to spin them ....what you guys think????<BR> If anyone know a guy in the PNW who knows these motors like the back of his hand, send them my way....<P> Thanks, don55<P> dlw29@hotmail.com<P> As for the head removal, better to be safe than sorry....its only a tiny hernia!!!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 2, 2001 Share Posted January 2, 2001 Update IV...I think....<BR> Pulled pan last night, friend (another) said wrist pin lock bolt is loose(do 56 have lockbolts there or not???)<BR> Oil looked good, no grit or anything.<BR> Pan looked good, same story<BR> Heres the fun stuff....I can move the rod/wrist pin on all of the cylinders with moderate effort, and after having worked it a couple times to push excess oil,etc. out, I can move them by hand a bit....I had one, number 7 cyl I made it go clunk clunk clunk with minimal effort...HMMMMMM<BR> as the rod was moving up top it was doing so on crank too...I hate raining oil on you!!!<BR> The crank end was moving less as the rods are a lot tighter there...I got an .008 feeler gauge between pr. of rods easily...book spec is 4 ot 8....and 8 went in very easy on these pair in particularall the way to the crank...I also seem to be able to twist ever ever so slightly the rod at the crank, unless my eyes are playing games on me....HMMMMMMMMM<BR> Pulled #7 rod cap....cap brg not bad, but not what I had hoped for for 2 hrs....gray coating mostly there, but not all, rear edge at middle worn a bit with a couple of slight scratches in brg.....<BR> Rod portion of brg....LOL....looks like %&*%&*(&(@#$.....edges (3/4") or so on each end of brg hads gray coating...middle part...the part that takes the majority of the beating when things arent right is chrome like...no copper, down to the steel liner part though....<BR> My question to you all, amonst your valued input is this...would you say this crank is too small for the brgs... .010/.010??? Or what....Keep in mind this noise has been constant since initial firing and isnt too loud at low speed,but gets more pronounced as you add fuel to the fire....Sounds like to me anyway, I am owed some machine work....<P> Let me know guys, Thanks and Happy New Year!!!<P> don55<P> dlw29@hotmail.com<P> PS..anyone know the installed ht. of the valves???? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 The problem persists...I have moved it to the performance part of the page for those following this saga.<P> Thanks, don55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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