1917 D45 changing fluids

[Bob Engle]

I'm in the process of learning about my 1917 D45.  I am changing out all fluids.  

Is there  a way to drain the fluid out of the timing gear case?  There is nothing obvious on the bottom of the gearcase.  There is a fill plug on the left side and a plug on the right side top above the the water pump drive shaft.  The instruction manual  say to fill to 1" below the fill plug on the left side.

 

Bob Engle

[DonMicheletti]

No mway I hnow of to drain that oil - however, it does migrate back into the crankcase.

Those 2 fill points supply different things. The one on the left is for the timing gears, the one on the right is for the front water pump drive gear bearing (Lighter oil I think)

[Bob Engle]

Thanks, you confirmed what I thought.  That timing gear housing must have a lot of junk accumulated over the last 100 years.

 

Bob Engle

[Brian_Heil]

That top fitting on the timing cover is to add oil through if the engine has been stored.  I've never used it.

[Bob Engle]

Thanks Brian

[DonMicheletti]

The manual says to fill the timing gear reservoir (left side) with steam cylinder oil to within 1" of the opening. Doesent say how often. For the right side (pump shaft bearing) add 2 ounces of motor oil at "frequent intervals". Do not overfill.

[Mark Shaw]

Timing gears do need gear lube to prevent premature wear.  The equivalent of steam cylinder oil is SAE 250 gear lube which  is what I use in the transmissions and rear ends of my 20s era Buicks.  That heavy lube won't easily pour into a 3/8" filler hole in the center of the gear case, so I use 90wt gear lube for the timing gears in my 13 Buick.  Because the filler hole is also difficult to access, I installed a 3/8" X 6"  pipe extension so I can pour oil into the gear case to one side of the engine away from the fan.  I fill the extension once for each week of touring.  Since this car has a total waste oiling system, the 90wt lube is not circulated through the engine after it seeps into the pan.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Mark Shaw (see edit history)

[Brian_Heil]

My comment may not apply back to '17.  Best to listen to Brother Shaw.

 

I have only one plug on my '23 and it is on top of the water pump gear and drains to the sump and it says it is there to lube the cam drive after 'long storage'.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Brian_Heil (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

12 hours ago, Brian_Heil said:

My comment may not apply back to '17.  Best to listen to Brother Shaw.

 

 

Not that far Yet!

Edited July 5, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Bob Engle]

Today I noticed that the 260 weight gear oil is leaking out the pitman arm seal and down onto the frame.  How big a job is it to replace this seal?

 

Bob Engle

[Brian_Heil]

What seal?

 

Get the 1200 weight steering box lube from Restoration Supply.

[Terry Wiegand]

I would like for Mark Shaw to explain a little further about the timing gear case on our engines.  My friend, Keith Townsend, down in North Carolina has a '16 D-45 that he is restoring from the frame up.  When he had the engine down for rebuilding, he told me that there is a small hole at the bottom of the case that allows for gear case oil to drain into the crankcase pan.  Isn't your 1913 constructed like this?  Mark, if you're using 90wt gear oil in your '13, have you had any issues with that?  If your engine was designed like my '16 D-45 was, the gear lube is going to end up in the pan.  I like your description of the lubrication system.  I tell everyone that these old engines used a total loss oiling system like the old Harley-Davidson engines.  By that I mean that they drip, seep, ooze, and slobber while doing a good job of marking their spot.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out Doo Dah Way

[DonMicheletti]

True total loss engines were just that - total loss. There is a large oil tank that supplies drippers that meter oil to various engine bearings. The oil then drops to the bottom of the sump where there is a petcock. You are then supposed to just drain the oil on the ground - I dont thinl folks do thst these days, but catch that oil in something. Many early cars are like that.

 

Our Buicks arent like that. Eventually the gear oil ends up in the pan. There is so little gear oil compared to the bearing lube oil that it really doesnt make any difference.

 

It has been a long time for me, but i dont remember an intentional drain to the pan on my E-45.

[DonMicheletti]

Wrong, once again - well sort of.

I checked my spare parts. This is what I found.

There is a drain hole back to the gear case, but it isnt driect. The first photo you'll see a hole on the S?G end of the bearing assembly. That hole catches the oil that finds its way through the bearing and instead of puking it on the engine, that hole goes toward the gearcase end of the bearing assemby and dumps the overflow into the gear case. second photo.

 

I hope this is what you are talking about.  Sorry the phoyos are dark.

[Terry Wiegand]

Don, my comment about the total loss oiling was very much tongue-in-cheek.  To put it another way, my tongue got in front of my eyetooth and I couldn't see what I was saying!  Brother Shaw will straighten us all out on this.

 

Terry Wiegand

Out in Doo Dah

[ROD W]

Here they are a bit lighter

[DonMicheletti]

Sorry I missed that Terry.  They do tend to "mark their spot"