1957 Engine Swap?

[Guest]

Hi Guys, 

                   I have an opportunity to purchase a '57 at a very reasonable price from a good friend of mine. The car has been sitting in his garage for almost 15 years and it will need some restoration/refreshing. It has a very straight, rust free southern California body with hard top only. It was an original black/black car with 312 and standard trans. Only trouble is the orig engine is long gone. 3 speed trans and bell housing are still in the car as are the exhaust manifold and exhaust system. I don't think I'll have much luck in locating another complete 312 without paying dearly for it. So I'm wondering what other Ford engines will bolt directly to this original bell housing? I have a 1970 302 that's clean and runs excellent. It's currently coupled to a C6 automatic. I would prefer to keep the manual transmission if possible.

Seeking your input.

Thanks, Greg

[paul2748]

Look for a 292.  More plentiful and a lot cheaper than a 312. You can't tell it apart from a 312.  The hard thing is trying to get all the Tbird specific parts such as the pan, Some are reproduced, like the water pump spacer.  Fan should be no problem.  A lot of the brackets are reproduced.

 

TBirds used a standard Ford generator but the rear plate and front pulley are Tbird specific

 

Any other engine will require engine mounts.  No other Ford engine will bolt to your bellhousing.

Edited May 18, 2017 by paul2748 (see edit history)

[Guest]

Thanks Paul

[eboose7]

Call Tim at Hill's Thunderbird Center (740) 949-2217.  They usually have a great selection of "55-"57 Thunderbird parts.

[Guest]

Thanks, Do they have complete, used engines for sale?

[paul2748]

11 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Thanks, Do they have complete, used engines for sale?

 

 

They might

[eboose7]

Hill's Thunderbird Center performs award winning restorations and keeps an inventory of hard to find parts.  During the restoration of my 1956 Thunderbird, They were able to find an NOS set of rear shocks for me. 

[miker98038]

I'd start with the Thunderbird specialist as suggested above.  If you don't find what you need, I'd also try John Mummert over in El Cajon.  Not a 'bird guy,  but lots of y block parts.  http://www.ford-y-block.com/. Not a bad drive over from PSP, I've done it a number of times.

 

Tim McMasters up near Visalia http://yblockguy.com/, also an engine builder. 

 

Ted Eaton at http://www.eatonbalancing.com/.   No telling what parts they may have in inventory.

 

You might also try at http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/default.aspx.  There was a 312 crank up in Oregon a little while back.

 

 

[fordrodsteven]

I know it's been a while and I don't know if you decided to buy the '57 or not. Anyway.  The "Y" block engine is mounted with a front mount and a rear mount on the transmission. Then there are steady rests on both sides of the engine. (Think of something similar to sway bar end links.). Your best bet, as said earlier, is to stick with the "Y" block engine for ease of installation. I have a '55 but it has been changed to a 302. It was done before I got it. There is fabrication of a mounting system required to do that kind of installation. Everyone who goes for the conversion runs into issues with the steering box and exhaust manifold interference. Some people move the engine a little higher to clear the steering box. Some people move the engine a little to the right side to get away from the steering box. Definitely some planning and then good fabrication skills are required. Something else is that the "Y" block is a very heavy engine and the others are lighter. The front of the car will be higher or you will need to use some method of lowering it to get the ride height back to where it belongs.

I have seen "FE" big block engines and small block 289's, 302's in cars and they all mentioned the issue with the steering box. One guy however told me he used a 351W because it is one inch more narrow than the 289 / 302 but it's one inch taller. He told me that he got the headers for a mid  - late 60's Mustang from PYPES and they worked out pretty well. He also said the other thing is you have to be wary of the pan sump. He said he used a pan off of a truck for his install.

Edited June 30, 2017 by fordrodsteven (see edit history)

[Loon]

I have a 292 CID engine, casting number B9AE 6015-F.  I believe that casting number was manufactured in '59 and '60 for use in cars and trucks.

[Bleach]

Here's a 312 with an automatic, just in case.

http://forums.y-blocksforever.com/Topic137495.aspx

[Scary Gary]

Eaton balancing explained to me that I'm better off finding and rebuilding a 292 than rebuilding my 312. The 312's were built in a whole different factory than the other y-blocks and were not as good as a 292 and a 292 could make more power but were detuned a bit to make room for the new 312, Ford couldn't have their 292 making the same power as their new 312. Another reason why they didn't install 4 barrel carbs on the 292, where the 312's did. The way the 312 cam bore was made makes it next to impossible for the average machine shop to replace cam bearings if they are worn which most likely, most are. The prior Y-blocks had the cam journals line bored before installing the cam bearings, where as the 312 they slapped undersized cam bearing into the journals and then line bored the bearings, don't quote me directly but that was the jist of it.   I'm in search of a 292 to build. I will be using the aluminum heads, mild cam, headers, aluminum intake, and Sniper fuel injection in my 57 T-Bird.

Edited June 10, 2022 by Scary Gary (see edit history)

[1957Birdman]

You got good advice from Eaton, especially since you don't seem to be interested in originality. You might also want to check with Eaton to see if you could also use a 272 block. The 272 and 292 use the same crankshaft and camshaft. The advantage would be that they have more meat on the block to bore out. Not sure what the downside might be as I am no expert, but it might be worth asking.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[Paul Dobbin]

On 5/16/2017 at 9:20 PM, Guest said:

Hi Guys, 

     I have a 1970 302 that's clean and runs excellent. It's currently coupled to a C6 automatic. I would prefer to keep the manual transmission if possible.

Seeking your input.

Thanks, Greg

  I'm looking at a 57 with the 302 engine.   Do they make a Thunderbird valve covers to fit the 302?   i like the original look.

[1957Birdman]

The short answer is no. They have a different configuration and they are just not compatible. The best way to get that look is to buy a car that has the correct 312 CID engine with the engine dress-up kit. If you buy this 57, be sure your offer is reduced because of the engine swap, which does affect value.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[Paul Dobbin]

What would be a fair value for such a car in #3 condition otherwise with both tops?.

[1957Birdman]

I would say somewhere in the $25K to $30K range, assuming it is a rust-free example. If you want a better idea of value, check out the final results of cars sold on Bring-a-Trailer and Ebay. There are so many available these days that it is not unusual to find one for sale and they are priced accordingly. I would definitely need to see the car to give you a definitive answer.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

PS - if Ford had made the 302 in 1955 it would likely have been the engine put in the T-Bird.

[Paul Dobbin]

Thanks, Lew

I've not looked at it up close yet with magnet.   I know is a good driver and looks good, but how good is still unknown.

I'm a regular poster on the AACA Forums, but a 50 year Early Ford V8 Guy.   Had a 57 Ford Conv. in 1963-64 and a 1957

Ranchero 2017-2021.  I don't even know if I'll fit in a 57 T-Bird.   My 57 Corvette was to  small.  Hopefully they're not made

just for small guys.

Paul Dobbin

[1957Birdman]

The T-Bird has more room than the Corvette, but not by much. What it does have is a telescoping steering column. I am almost 6'3" and can fit okay, as long as I pull the steering wheel closer to me. I also have my seat pulled back to its farthest extent. I have the manual seat, but even if I had the power seat, I would probably keep it all the way back and down. Make sure when you drive the car that you have everything adjusted properly.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[Paul Dobbin]

     Owner is a small woman, so i'll have to move the seat way back to get my long legs in.   With two new knees, and old age

     I thought it might make a good tour car.   I like The Glidden Tours for my older cars, and Sentimental Tour which will take

     cars up to 1958, if they still do it.    Have l seen your 57 Bird on the Sentimental Tour?  (I think so)

     Thanks for you help.

      Paul

[1957Birdman]

No, I have never driven in one of the AACA tours. You may have seen my car at Hershey. I am in the DPC section, and the car is Colonial White with a red interior.

I too have long legs and the key to driving the car comfortably is to pull the steering wheel toward you, which frees up space for your legs.

I had no trouble driving the car 500 miles back in 2018. Having said that, if you want more room and want to stick with Ford you could do well with 1957 Ford Farilane 500 Club Victoria. It would certainly give you plenty of room and is a nice handling car for the time.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[Paul Dobbin]

On 8/6/2024 at 9:21 PM, 1957Birdman said:

No, I have never driven in one of the AACA tours. You may have seen my car at Hershey. I am in the DPC section, and the car is Colonial White with a red interior.

I too have long legs and the key to driving the car comfortably is to pull the steering wheel toward you, which frees up space for your legs.

I had no trouble driving the car 500 miles back in 2018. Having said that, if you want more room and want to stick with Ford you could do well with 1957 Ford Farilane 500 Club Victoria. It would certainly give you plenty of room and is a nice handling car for the time.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

   I recently sold my 57 Ranchero because it didn't have A/C, PS & PB.   I do Glidden Tours in my 34 Ford Fordor, which I can     

   pull my left leg into by grabbing my pants leg and pulling pulling it in.   Same goes for my 35 Ford Pickup and 35 Buick.   But

   the 66 VW that had for 35 years had to find a new home too.   Knee replacements are not always successful.    I still awaiting

   the trial fit for the 57 T-Bird.

   Other days, I think maybe it's time to sell everything and move to a senior community and play cards.   YUCK!

Edited August 19 by Paul Dobbin
Re-position text (see edit history)