1956 torque tube front spline seal

[1956century]

Hi all - does anyone have the part number for the front torque tube spline seal?  I'm in the process of removing my Dyanflow to do the torque ball and front seal, and would like to put in a new seal on the torque tube end as well.

 

Thanks

[SpecialEducation]

I need to check the spares I have...  We did the torque ball a while back, but developed a gusher at the front seal.  If you are pulling the Dynaflow to do the front seal, just get an external seals kit from Fatsco.  It comes with the front shaft seal, new converter o-ring, pan gasket, accumulator gaskets, etc...  $76:  http://www.fatsco.net/store.html#!/1955-1960-Buick-Dynaflow-Kits/p/51562999/category=18246069

 

What I don't know is how the Fatsco rear shaft seal compares to the wrong one that Bob's sent us, so I can't say for sure if Fastsco got it right.  We didn't change it this go-round, so I should have the Bob's and Fatsco to compare.side-by-side.  I'll try to dig them up and let you know.

[SpecialEducation]

As a matter of fact, we bought an external seal kit, then had to go back and buy a master overhaul kit.  The first kit got opened, so it's not returnable, but it should be complete (I'll check).  I'd make you a super deal on it!

[buick5563]

SKF 13588

[1956century]

Thanks all - looks like 13588 and 13585 (thanks Beemon) will both work.

 

13588 has a double lip: http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/457010/sealdetail.asp?s=13588

 

13585 has a single lip: http://www.skfextranet.com/catalogs/457010/sealdetail.asp?s=13585

 

I have the rear torque tube kit, front pump seal and o-ring, as well as the pan gasket.  Do you guys recommend I change anything else?

[1956century]

I was able to remove the rear end and transmission yesterday.  The torque tube did not have a seal in it.  The torque ball had a seal pressed in.  As well, the torque ball has rubber on the inside and out, and the torque ball retainer has none.  According to Dave Edwards (where I bought my parts),  I need to shave off the rubber from the outside.

 

Was there supposed to be a seal in the torque tube as well?

 

 

 

[SpecialEducation]

Looks right to me.  The ID of the seal in your last shot should fit the OD of the shaft before the torque tube (fluid should not be getting to the splines).  That's the final check to keep the red stuff north of the axle.

 

As far as rubber on the ball goes, some say to leave it.  We didn't:  

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by SpecialEducation
Trying to figure out how to say what I'm sayin'! (see edit history)

[buick5563]

There should be one in the tube itself that rides on that bushing. I guess it is possible that it came out with the torque ball, because you do have one in the pic. There is only one, originally.

[old-tank]

The seal in the torque ball should be in the front of the torque tube...see if it will fit.  Either place it will serve the same purpose.

[1956century]

@SpecialEducation, did you leave the rubber on the inside of the torque ball intact?  Does it still leak?  I don't believe I actually had any significant leaks from my torque ball, so I'm debating leaving it be and only doing the front seal.

 

Instructions from Dave Edwards (http://www.autotran.us/DF_TB_Retainer.html):

 

Quote

E. Potential Problem - Some, if not all, 1956 torque balls (AT-5645) had rubber molded on the inside also. Do not remove the rubber on the inside unless it has been damaged! If you have to remove the inside rubber, or it has already been removed, you will now require  a different style of AT-5643, the inner torque ball retainer, to get the clearances correct. I do not have this special retainer.

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by 1956century (see edit history)

[SpecialEducation]

2 minutes ago, 1956century said:

@SpecialEducation, did you leave the rubber on the inside of the torque ball intact?  Does it still leak?

 

 

My understanding is that some '56 balls had holes going through the ball and the rubber inside and out was all the same piece.  As I recall, if you have one of these style torque balls, your best bet is to send it out for revulcanizing.  I think we had rubber in there, but we didn't touch it.  When we removed the outer rubber, I recall being relieved that there were no holes.  If there wasn't rubber on the inside, I think the lack of holes would have been obvious.

 

We did the torque ball in the fall of 2013, and have had no leaks there since.  I'll have to look to see if we have pix of the inside.

[Beemon]

1 hour ago, 1956century said:

@SpecialEducation, did you leave the rubber on the inside of the torque ball intact?  Does it still leak?  I don't believe I actually had any significant leaks from my torque ball, so I'm debating leaving it be and only doing the front seal.

 

 

Since you've already taken your torque ball apart, it might be best to get the new torque ball retainer that has the rubber on the retainer instead of the torque ball. Would be a shame to put it all back together come to find out the torque ball is leaking because tolerances were changed during disassembly.

[leon bee]

I'm kinda looking forward to buying some parts from David Edwards. I bought a couple armloads of stuff from him back about 79-81. Several phone calls back then, always helpful. That's a long time ago and it's so good to find somebody like that still going.

[SpecialEducation]

6 hours ago, Beemon said:

 

Since you've already taken your torque ball apart, it might be best to get the new torque ball retainer that has the rubber on the retainer instead of the torque ball. Would be a shame to put it all back together come to find out the torque ball is leaking because tolerances were changed during disassembly.

 

Yeah, there are two reasons torque balls leak. One is just the design itself, the other is the materials used. 

 

The new kits not only change the design slightly, but the seal materials are way ahead of what was available years ago.  If it's not leaking now, it will soon, and its enough of a pain to get at later that I think you'll kick yourself later if you don't do it now.  Just my 2¢...

[1956century]

On 6/15/2016 at 2:43 PM, old-tank said:

The seal in the torque ball should be in the front of the torque tube...see if it will fit.  Either place it will serve the same purpose.

 

It looks like Budd had a seal in the torque ball as well upon removal: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103807725213285605281/album/AF1QipNsoUxKbo9eX8c1s2D808EOHRIQ04-014IfIyEk/AF1QipOjdfUTQIO-1972bJBSnGmVsRmvwTd447MJZXhW

 

It looks like he then reinstalled it in the torque tube: https://get.google.com/albumarchive/103807725213285605281/album/AF1QipNsoUxKbo9eX8c1s2D808EOHRIQ04-014IfIyEk/AF1QipNi3XU1zYwujVI9W0VdJewlniznseVomM5F-DtI

 

If I put it in the torque tube, which way should it face?

[old-tank]

1 hour ago, 1956century said:

If I put it in the torque tube, which way should it face?

The lip faces the front in this case...alway toward the fluid or gas that you are trying to seal.

[1956century]

Thought I would update this.  Turns out the seal can only be installed onto the torque ball, not the torque tube (not a press fit).  

 

A few pictures of how I removed the rubber from the outside of the ball (required for 1956) + seal install.

 

 

 

[old-tank]

Both ways will work, but in this case be extremely careful during installation so as not to damage the seal. 

[1956century]

@old-tank - the recess in the torque tube has a larger diameter than the torque ball, so the seal will have a loose fit.  

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Hey, all, do not mean to hijack this thread, but does anyone KNOW if the "new" Dynaflow torque ball rubber thingys will work on a standard?

 

  Thanks

  Ben