Best water pump for 63 with air conditioning

[rodneybeauchamp]

Look like needing a new water pump as the old pump lower hose outlet looks bogged up with a filler or something. Had a look at the Koolzone pumps that look impressive but at US$149.00 plus freight to down under might be an issue.

Can any one advise what would be a good quality, long lasting ( read never to replace in my lifetime!) pump to suit first generation 63 401 with air conditioning?

I did read some of the horror stories about broken bolts, etc. What do I need to be careful of when removing and replacing?

Kind regards

Rodney

[Bill Stoneberg]

I have been using a FlowKooler water pump (http://www.flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/) for the past 10 years.  I live in Texas and have not had any issues with either the pump of getting hot.

 

Removing the front cover if it has never been off, can be a real pain. You will probably break the little bolts that hold the pump on.  Soak in PB blaster add heat and you might get lucky.

 

Take a look at the back of your cover and make sure its not scored.

 

Better to do this job at home as opposed to out in the wild someplace.

 

Good luck....

[steelman]

The TA Performance water pump has a bearing, rather than a bushing in the end. Can't tell by looking once it is in the car. I put one of theirs on about six years ago and have had no issues.

[telriv]

As mentioned applying PB blaster a number of times when the engine is warm is a good thing to do. Not mentioned is tapping the 1/4" bolts sharply with a hammer to try & loosen the corrosion. Every time you soak the bolts with a warm engine tap the bolts. I haven't had a bolt break in years using this method.

[lrlforfun]

OK Bill: Your advise for any Nailhead? 

 

OK All you Riviera People: 

 

LISTEN TO BILL!!!!!!

 

DODGE A MAJOR BULLET!!!!!!!

 

This is a serious problem that when done BEFORE THE FACT in the safe confines of a shop or proper work area can save so much grief.  Back in the day the auto parts store had a pump in stock and installation was quick and uneventful. 

 

Today?  Father Time has not missed a trick and while a pump is somewhat available, the proper installation process has been dramatically slowed down by frozen and broken bolts.

 

Mitch

[Bill Stoneberg]

The flowKooler is built for any 61-66 nailhead both 401 and 425.

 

So no, it won't fit my 60 Electra.

 

My advise on the removal and replacement is good for any old nailhead that has not been taken apart.

 

I like Tom's suggestions and will try it as I have one that has not been taken apart yet.

 

Bill

Edited February 21, 2016 by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)

[rodneybeauchamp]

Many thanks for you inputs, really liked the Flowkooler informative website and technical info on pumps so have one on the way. Am thinking that to go this far, best to replace timing gears and chain as I had issues with a 64 300 plastic coated gear that disintegrated. Besides automotive silliness helps the economy! Really enjoy this forum and the quality of responses.

Rodney

[rodneybeauchamp]

Great news, pump came off much easier than I thought, did not break any bolts. That had already been done by a previous person ( let's not call them a technician!) however as the timing cover is coming off I should be able to ease them free.

Alternator bolt has been nicely rounded to so getting to that one will be fun. Explains why the belts were loose.

And pump had all of three blades on the impellor so the Flowkooler multi blade unit will make a huge difference at low speed/ rpm which is where I'm usually going to be at.

Will search more info on what to put on the bolts etc when putting back together.

[Guest Dale in Vancouver]

   Hey Rodney. Why the slight about "technicians" ?  I started out in NZ as an Auto Electrician, courtesy of Mr Lucas. Came to Canada many years ago, and as there was no such category, I became a "mechanic" then after quite a while, when working for Jaguar, I became a "technician" overnight.  I'll have you know my expertise more than doubled that night !!  (Salary didn't ! )

[DrP]

Got my brand new 6 vane water pump and new timing cover - mine was a small bit corroded so just replaced it -and timing chain plus a set of stainless steel bolts for mounting from Russ Martin at Centerville Auto Repair Grass Valley CA. He knows railheads as he's been in business since 1979. He's known in hot rod circles for building go fast railheads and has lots of performance parts for railheads.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Hi Dale,

I don't think it was a technician who did the job.

if you saw how the bogged up the water pump around where the bottom hose goes, you would not give them the honour of calling them a technician. The gasket was filled with Stag or similar jointing compound to stop leaks as two bolts were broken, therefore not enough pressure to seal. A three vane impeller pump was used where it should have been five on an air conditioned job, alternator adjusting bolt is rounded so the belts could not be tensioned correctly and ....... So whoever did the job had a care factor of ZERO.

A true technician would not have left these things as they are, that is their job to fix things. They should have replaced it with a new pump and removed the two broken bolts and fixed it properly.

No doubt in your work as a Jaguar Technician you would have come across similar things where someone had a go at fixing it and you spend three times as long and the owner pays three times as much to correct it. True technicians have pride in what they do and ensure the the vehicle is fixed properly.

I just get really peeved when I come across shoddy workmanship or short cuts on what is a vital system in the car.

I understand fully why some of the owners on this forum don't let anyone near their Riv with a spanner, they just don't meet the standard that owners require. I am not a mechanic but I am sure my standard of workmanship exceeds that of many tech guys, because I really care about preserving the car and making it 110% reliable.

I used to teach at an Automotive Trade School for 23 years and it was interesting to see the different attitudes and abilities with some of the apprentices, some should never have been given a spanner. So I'm not having a slight at true technicians at all, just the jerk that did it!

[Guest Dale in Vancouver]

    Thanks Rodney. My comment was strictly tongue in cheek. I always felt "technician" was just a polite euphemism to elevate "mechanics" out of the dirty fingernail brigade. I was never ashamed of being a Mechanic.    I must agree with the fact that some people should never be let loose under the hood (bonnet) of a car.  When so called Free Trade with the US opened up the import of vehicles here we got many Jaguars with some of the most appalling repairs, obviously not done by properly trained Techs. 

   We are extremely fortunate to have this Forum. With the friendly attitude,and wealth of knowledge being shared, Riviera owners can always get answers.

    Cheers,   Dale.

[telriv]

DrP,

 

   Would you be willing to sell your OLD timing case cover & if so how much??? Shipping to 06853  Pending some pics of the corroded areas & of the back of where the water pump impeller blades normally hit when a pump goes bad.

 

 

Tom T.

[rodneybeauchamp]

Great news,  have been able to grind away the rounded alternator adjusting bolt and thanks to Jim Cannon, worked out how to slip ithe alternator through the mounting bracket so I could remove the rest of the bolt.

So old bolt came out very easily in the vice and a suitable replacement found. With it on the bench I'm now thinking alternator bearings and brushes and a clean up while its out.

Water crossover manifold now removed and cleaned up. A small wire brush in a drill press was great for removing the internal deposits. Using some bearing blue, and a fine file was able to true the surface where the water outlet bolts on. Now have surface contact over the full 360 degrees. 

Tapped out the threads and found old silicone sealer in the blind hole was stopping the bolt from threading all the way home, so now that is all cleaned out, is perfect.

Drilled a small 2mm bleed hole in the new thermostat and installed with the new water outlet and gasket. Even with the new outlet,  I removed some rough casting where the hose clamps on and ran the file over the gasket face to make sure it seals properly. 

Even new parts can be improved with some care, and some blue printing, to make sure all the mating surfaces are true and free from any imperfection that could cause a leak. Just because a part is new, don't assume it is perfect!

[rodneybeauchamp]

Hi Tom T, 

 

timing cover  came off tonight as we have been away for Easter. It came off very easily and is in good condition, so I will reuse it quite happily. Sorry Tom! Good news is it is the old style nylon timing gear, so it was worth the effort. 

 

PS I really like your comments on the forum along with just about everyone else. You seem to come across as having years of " been there too experience" but able to put it in a such a positive and helpful way which shows you really care about the owners problems. I value that type of info far more than some of the put downs that I see on other forums. 

 

 

[DrP]

Tom: PM me and remind me and as soon as I can I'll get you some pics of the original cover.

Thanks,

Dale