Detroit Ball and Trunnion 1931 Question

[Mark Gregory]

I own a 1931 Reo Royale with Ball and Trunnion Universals . When I purchased the car it was in many parts in boxes including the driveshaft . I have the springs but where they mount to the cage holding the balls . Is there supposed to be an adapter to hold the narrow part of the spring to the cage ? ? The wide part of the spring fits in the trunnion with no problem . My Trunnion has 6 mounting holes and i can find no literature about this model . The Trunnion model with the 4 mounting holes . There is literature available but it does not show the cage holding the balls . I was told by Special Interest Cars a vintage parts supplier ( with lots of reference manuals ) that it looks like a truck Trunnion with the 6 holes  The joys of owning an Orphan car . Any information would be helpful . I will get some pictures posted .

Edited September 22, 2019 by Mark Gregory (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Does this picture in this link maybe help answer your question?  About the 3rd picture down.

 

http://arrc.ebscohost.com/ebsco_static/repair-tips/8852CH22_Universal_and_Constant_Velocity.htm

 

Or maybe this link?   http://www.tpub.com/basae/118.htm

Edited December 17, 2015 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Here are the pictures that Mark is talking about.

PastedGraphic-1.tiff

Edited December 18, 2015 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Mark Gregory]

Thanks Larry for posting the pictures . From a chart I have the following cars used the same Detroit Universal Joints I believe . Auburn , Blackhawk , Chrysler , Dodge Senior , Graham , Hupmobile , Reo .

[Spinneyhill]

I am not familiar with your model, but I will make a suggestion based on a little looking at the internet. The spring in your  PastedGraphic is the "compensating spring". It mounts with small end on the end of the drive shaft and large end on the rear of the housing, or perhaps on a plate shaped to fit that end. Perhaps this picture will help:

http://armyordnance.tpub.com/OD1006/OD10060015.htm

 

You can see the thin plate behind the large end of the spring, held between the body and the companion flange. I can't make your 3rd and 4th photos - they are a bit out of focus - but I suppose they are the hole in the end of the drive shaft into which the small end of the spring goes.

 

There will be another compensating spring in the other universal. Between them, they keep the drive shaft central in the two universals.

Edited December 19, 2015 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Photos of Mark's items....

[Mark Gregory]

Thanks John for posting the pictures . There is a date stamped in the cage October 24 ,1924 . Then the word Patent .  

 

I have trouble on the 4 th picture trying to understand how they fit together . When the car is in motion there is nothing to tie them together .

[Spinneyhill]

The cap fits on the end of the drive shaft and the spring fits as shown. The other end of the spring fits in the end of the body and is held in place compressed by the spring at the other end of the drive shaft. Is there a plate or something for the large end of the spring? What shape is in the body and the flange it bolts to that might fit the large end of the spring?

[Mark Gregory]

There is a large nut that holds the flange on to the differential and the transmission . I thought the spring would go over the nut ( it does not fit tightly ) .

 

You are saying the cage just butts up to the Spring ? ? I thought it would need to be attached to make a good fit . Because when you are trying to install everything back together it might not centre it self on the cage .  Thanks

[Spinneyhill]

Thank you for your question. I have learned about these universals. My 1930 Dodge Brothers 8 has them. The picture in the owner's book shows the spring as being retained at the large end by a deep recess in the flange and looks to fit it well.

 

Now for my puzzle. The Hollander only shows the 1931 REO 8-21, with Spicer universals. No other 1931 REO is listed. The 1930 and '32 REO are also listed with Spicer joints, but a different model to the '31.

 

Maybe you can tell is a bit more about 1931 REOs?

 

Update: I have a 1934 or so catalogue of universal joints. The Spicer is given as a replacement for both Royale and Flying Cloud REOs of 1931. The replacement numbers for the ball and trunnion parts are also given. It might be good if you can post some pictures. The parts list makes it look like you have a "grease plate" with a ridge pressed into it for the large end of the compensating spring with a gasket on the flange side of it. You can get vehicle make interchanges from the part numbers if you want them.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

[Mark Gregory]

Thanks for everyones help . This is the best I can find . It does not have the date October 24 ,1924 on it .http://www.google.co.ve/patents/US1508653

[alsancle]

To the best of my knowledge the 31 Royale 8-31, 8-35, and 8-52 are mechanically identical for the 3 years they were built,  31, 32, 33.  The model designations changed in 33 along with cosmetics but the mechanics never did.

[Mark Gregory]

Thanks for everyones help with suppling  information . I checked the US Patent office drawing 1508653 and it was very close to my Universal . I opened up the end of the small end of the spring and forced it over the ball cap . I cut out 2 cork gaskets to go between the 2 metal surfaces at each end of the trunnions and installed it without any trouble . There is no more play in the shaft from trunnion to trunnion .

[Spinneyhill]

You mean part 3 in Figure 2 in the patent drawings? I would have thought it should be a steel washer capable of taking thrust.

[Mark Gregory]

From what I could figure out the spring just slips over the ball cap . It is held in place with friction . What I do not understand is how the narrow end of the springs got smaller than the ball cap by an 1/8 of an inch . It is together now I will see how it stands up when I drive the car . Thanks