Joseph44 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Hi Everyone: Need some good help and I know you guys can give it: Question I have a 1976 442 with the 455 motor, there is a high torq starter in 6 mon old I put a new alternator in, and just recently a new batt. These are all 6mon old. For some reason when the car is hot and turned off 15 min later it will not start until it cools downto approx. 168 deg. Now in the opg parts catalog they said that olds had hot start problems and they have a solenoid to fix that problem. When I'm running I show between 13/14 amps on my guage. but if I try to start the car my batt goes dead. I have dual fans mounted 1 air in 2 air out.when I turn the car off the fans run for 15/30 min.the temp I run at is 210/230. If someone can help with this I would be greatly appreciated. Hope this is enough info everyone have a great wk!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
61polara Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think your temps are way too high. Have you modified the engine? If so, it sound like you need to increase your radiator cooling capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 The hot start problem is a "feature" of all GM cars with big blocks and the stock Delco starter. The problem is that the solenoid mounted on the starter heats up, which requires more current to pull in the starter drive and contacts. The starter circuit runs through the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, and firewall connector. Over time these contacts all get dirty and resistance increases. It's death by a thousand cuts, as the resistance drops the voltage just enough to prevent the starter from engaging. Of course, ensure that the solenoid on the starter is in good shape ("new" doesn't always mean "good", especially with Chinesium rebuilt parts). The Ford solenoid is a bandaid to bypass these voltage drops. That's one way to do it, but I'm personally not a fan. You may decide that the ease of installation works for you, but don't waste your money at OPGI, just get a solenoid from the parts store. Alternately, you can wire a small relay like this, which avoids having to cut the battery cable and also avoids having to use a Ford part on your Olds... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph44 Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks Joe for your help I have a high torque starter in it as of 6mon ago I also put a rebuilt chrome starter in at that time. What would u recommend? I thought about pulling the starter and having it check, I don't think I have a bad altenator as i'm running at 13/14 amps.I'm starting to get paranoid about going anywhere never know when she won't start. Please let me know what you would recommend! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Joe for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Thanks Joe for your help I have a high torque starter in it as of 6mon ago I also put a rebuilt chrome starter in at that time. What would u recommend? I thought about pulling the starter and having it check, I don't think I have a bad altenator as i'm running at 13/14 amps.I'm starting to get paranoid about going anywhere never know when she won't start. Please let me know what you would recommend! Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again Joe for your help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the starter is an aftermarket Chinesium starter, I'd be suspect. I'd also check for voltage drop at the starter terminals due to resistance in the starter circuit. As I noted above, things like worn contacts in the neutral safety switch can cause a voltage drop. The relay solution bypasses that problem if you want to go that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry W Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 You may need a shim between the starter and the engine block. As components heat up, the clearance between the starter drive gear and the engine ring gear gets to be too tight and causes the two gears to bind up. Shims should be readily available from any parts house; start with the thinnest and work your way up. Let us know how you make out. Larry W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe_padavano Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 You may need a shim between the starter and the engine block. As components heat up, the clearance between the starter drive gear and the engine ring gear gets to be too tight and causes the two gears to bind up. Shims should be readily available from any parts house; start with the thinnest and work your way up. Let us know how you make out. Larry W Chevies need starter shims, which is why they are readily available. In over four decades of owning over two dozen Oldsmobiles, I've never seen or needed an Oldsmobile starter shim. Besides, if the starter solenoid doesn't even engage due to the hot start problem, a shim isn't going to fix that. The shims are to correct grinding that occurs once the starter drive is engaged and spinning the flexplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry W Posted August 29, 2015 Share Posted August 29, 2015 (edited) Chevies need starter shims, which is why they are readily available. In over four decades of owning over two dozen Oldsmobiles, I've never seen or needed an Oldsmobile starter shim. Besides, if the starter solenoid doesn't even engage due to the hot start problem, a shim isn't going to fix that. The shims are to correct grinding that occurs once the starter drive is engaged and spinning the flexplate. I encountered the need for a starter shim on a 1965 Olds 88 with a 425 CID. When the engine was hot, it would turn over slow and the negative battery cable (correct gauge) would melt its insulation. The proper thickness shim corrected the problem, never to appear again. I still have some of the shims if you need any. Edited August 29, 2015 by Larry W (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Roth Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 The hot start problem is a "feature" of all GM cars with big blocks and the stock Delco starter. The problem is that the solenoid mounted on the starter heats up, which requires more current to pull in the starter drive and contacts. The starter circuit runs through the ignition switch, neutral safety switch, and firewall connector. Over time these contacts all get dirty and resistance increases. It's death by a thousand cuts, as the resistance drops the voltage just enough to prevent the starter from engaging. Of course, ensure that the solenoid on the starter is in good shape ("new" doesn't always mean "good", especially with Chinesium rebuilt parts). The Ford solenoid is a bandaid to bypass these voltage drops. That's one way to do it, but I'm personally not a fan. You may decide that the ease of installation works for you, but don't waste your money at OPGI, just get a solenoid from the parts store. Alternately, you can wire a small relay like this, which avoids having to cut the battery cable and also avoids having to use a Ford part on your Olds... I believe Joe's advice is right on the money ! Many years ago in mid-1963 I had the identical problem with a Power-Pak optioned '56 Chevy while a college student in NJ. Swapping out rebuilt multiple rebuilt starters, did not help, and the relay was just a band-aid. Ultimately I fashioned a crude version of what Joe has diagrammed, and that solved it. Adding back the missing insulation which a previous "mechanic" must have ignored, also helped. It just needs a full blast of voltage and less heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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