viper771 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Hey guys I need some help! I have a 72 Buick Riviera with a 455. I never have done a lot of this stuff before so it is all new to me. I do have all of the shop manuals and what not.. so I follow them as best as I can. Anyway, my water pump went out and I decided to change out the timing set while I was at it. I only broke 3 lower bolts that attach to the water pump so that isn't too bad. My question is... the book says to just line up the dots on the timing gear (6 and 12 o clock).. no problem.. but then just says to re install distro. Should the rotor be pointing at #1? Some ppl have told me that I need to rotate the cam so the dots are 12 and 12... so the #1 is on the right stroke. I am just a bit unclear on it. I haven't taken the distro out yet or tried to removing timing cover until I know what I need to do beforehand. I bought a Cloyes timing set and I hope it fits ok. I also bought new oil pump gears since I might as well change those too. Any help or pointers would be great!!! Thanks!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Before you tear the timing cover off, get a helper to bump the starter over while you have the distributor cap offand watch the rotor on the distributor as it spins and stop the engine from turning over when the rotor is pointing to no.1 plugwire on the cap and the timing pointer is on zero. That is no.1 top dead center compression stroke. After you have done this remove the distributor and the cover and replace your chain and gear set putting the dots in the same position as they were. Piece of cake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper771 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 Thanks for the info! I can't really turn the engine over that way, but I can use a breaker bar on the harmonic balancer bolt to turn it by hand. That is a good idea though! How come it just didn't tell me to do that in the shop manual lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Shop manuals are made for professional mechanics, not the DIY'er like you and me. The writers of the manual expect the person using it on a daily basis to have a good understanding of basic mechanical skills. Those basic mechanical skills are what you learn by watching and listening to your dad, or from the instructors at the local tech school. For the DIY guy, it's either dad, the instructor, or a forum like this. You've come to the right place. Ed PS - Perhaps all of us DIY'ers should have a copy of something like "Auto Mechanics for Dummies" on the shelf in the garage next to the shop manuals. I happened to fall into the first category; my dad was a professional Buick mechanic for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper771 Posted June 24, 2015 Author Share Posted June 24, 2015 I guess thats true. I do know the older shop manual were more in depth, esp my 56 chevy ones and my 62 olds. I guess you were right though. By the 70s the shop manuals just seem to assume that you know what to do. They don't even go into what tools to use as much as the earlier ones. thanks for the help! By the way, do any of you know if the roller chain will have any clearance issues with the orig timing cover or oil pump? I know they sell a repop one where the oil pump stuff is moved a bit... but I didn't know if it made that much of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob71GS Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I guess thats true. I do know the older shop manual were more in depth, esp my 56 chevy ones and my 62 olds. I guess you were right though. By the 70s the shop manuals just seem to assume that you know what to do. They don't even go into what tools to use as much as the earlier ones. thanks for the help! By the way, do any of you know if the roller chain will have any clearance issues with the orig timing cover or oil pump? I know they sell a repop one where the oil pump stuff is moved a bit... but I didn't know if it made that much of a difference.I happen to believe that the factory shop manual gives very in depth info if you are mechanically inclined. They do have pictures showing the installation of the timing chain and sprocket, it clearly shows the timing marks lining up. You stated that you bought a Cloyes timing set. Both the factory original and Cloyes will have a chain, the only difference will be the camshaft sprocket. The factory has plastic gears which is noted for wearing, where the Cloyes will be all metal. Last fall I replaced the cover in my 71GS as I thought it had a crack in the housing, I also replaced the timing chain set since the plastic gear had worn down and there was quite a bit of play in it. Also put a new water pump on. Turned out the housing was fine but the gasket failed. If you need a cover, I have an excellent used that has been bead blasted and inspected that came off my 71 with only 20,000 original miles as I did install the new one. Bob Bonto ROA #277Technical Advisor 71-73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper771 Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks for the info! Installing the timing gear set wasn't the problem, I understood that. I just didn't know if you could drop the dist. back in with the rotor pointing to #1 when the dots were lined to 6 and 12 on the timing gear set or if I had to mess with it otherwise to get things to TDC etc. Any other motor I have messed with,, the distro was at the back and you didn't have to mess with it. I will have to see how my bolt removal goes for my broken bolts too. So far, I don't think I need a new cover but I will know more after I pull it off the engine I haven't done too much actual mechanical work like this before so I am learning as I go. I appreciate the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I do not believe #1 is at TDC when the timing marks on crank and cam gears are set at 12 and 6 o-clock position. You need to rotate engine and put #1 piston at TDC on compression stroke before installing distributor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seafoam65 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Jason, if he lines up the distributor rotor pointing to no. 1 plug wire, and the pointer on zero he will be at TDC compression stroke , then he just has to put the new timing gears where the old ones were with the dotsin the same position as before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper771 Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 I hope to yank the cover off here soon. What is the best way to keep the engine from turning so I can remove the harmonic balancer bolt? I don't have any air tools.. just the old fashioned breaker bar + elbow grease+ brute strength lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Jason, if he lines up the distributor rotor pointing to no. 1 plug wire, and the pointer on zero he will be at TDC compression stroke , then he just has to put the new timing gears where the old ones were with the dotsin the same position as before.Agree Winston but he was asking if he can set distributor at #1 position with the crank and cam gear marks set at 6 and 12 o-clock. I just wanted to make sure he didn't get confused thinking that would work. To loosen the bolt one method is use a heavy breaker bar and with socket on bolt allow the end of bar to rest on floor on the driver side of car. Bump starter over gently until loose. Be sure to disconnect ignition so engine doesn't accidentally start. Another method which I try first is to have a helper wedge a large flat blade screwdriver or pry bar in the teeth of flywheel and against trans housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper771 Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Ah ok thanks for that info! The flywheel one would work best I think... since I have everything pretty much taken off the front of the engine. and about setting the rotor to #1 with the cam gears at 6 and 12... that is why I wanted to ask first before trying to do that bec I figured that wasn't right lol. It didn't say that in the book either way, which is why I was unclear. But I think that stuff you guys mentioned has put me on the right track. I really miss driving my Riv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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