Jump to content

Model 20 Clutch Problem


1910Hupp
 Share

Recommended Posts

Ok Gurus

Developed a problem with the Hupp . Yesterday I took it for a run and noticed clutch engagement was a little violent and there was a slight knock in the back of the engine/transmission. Initially I thought was the magneto drive but when I engaged the clutch 1/2 way got a rattling sound almost like a ball bearing rattling round in a can. I'll try and record it today and then I'll pull the engine again -Any thoughts

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I first read this I thought deja vu all over again...there was a video once posted of a Hupp running that had a strange whining/grinding sound.

But your sound is different. It sounds to me like the large diameter spacers/washers that more or less act as thrust bearings in front of the clutch have decided to unconstruct themselves.

Waiting to hear from Ken, he knows the internals of these things better than most...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Karl,Wish I had some good news for you but it sounds like you will need to open it up.

David ,thank you for the compliment,not too sure I've earned it,the clutch is still a bit tricky on these.

The noise sounds like the ball earrings in the "throw out " bearing.

I am away from my parts book at this time so I can't give you the numbers. You will have to open up the clutch drum.

Be careful.

Best of luck,Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Ken That was my diagnosis as well

I've pulled the engine this morning (I find it the easiest way to get at everything) Over the next week or so I'll pull the clutch to bits.

The only thing I hate is putting the engine back in -Lining up the U joint ,The reverse change shaft and clearing the bottom lip on the gearbox over the gearbox mount all at the same time is the ultimate pain! Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Edgar Bowen

Hi Karl, this may not be what you want to hear, but I find the surest way to remove the engine is to undo the radius rods at the gear box; undo the brake rods; support the back end of the chassis on axle stands; undo the u bolts securing the centre bolt of the transverse spring; Support the front of the torque tube with another axle stand on a low engine trolley on wheels. Then lift the chassis off the rear spring and slowly roll the back end on its wheels, until the universal clears the gear box.

Now with radiator and engine hood removed, hoist the engine tilting it upwards at the front until it clears the front cross member, and move it upwards and forwards until clear of the vehicle.

Installation is exactly the reverse except that you need a very fine wire or fishing line to support the floppy universal to get it back into the rear of the gear box. This requires two, even three people and a flash light as the flywheel needs to be turned to meet the entering universal when the back axle is moved forward to mate up with the gear box.

When you come to undoing the clutch drum, be sure to hold it together in a strong vice as you undo the bolts.

I use Torrington bearings for the clutch, inside against the spring, and outside against the crankcase. I know Max Burke disapproves, but I have done thousands of miles with them and never had a scrap of trouble because the clutch runs in oil.

Patience is all that is needed for this job.

Edgar:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well thus is going to rock your socks. I took the engine to a shop as I didn't have a press and was reluctant to pull the clutch apart without one . I gave then a copy of previous threads on the clutch so they had something to show them what it should look like, The report is bearings ok and nothing obviously loose but , and wait for this , no bronze thrust washers , No fibre washer either. When the car was restored by the previous owner none were obviously ever installed. So there is considerable crankshaft end play and the theory is this might be causing the noise as the crankshaft pings against something. Interesting to say the least-Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well Thrust washer machined and installed . engine back at home and finally ready to install it this weekend. While I had every thing out again I decided to install the original inlet manifold and Breeze carburettor . The first problem was that the inlet manifold actually sits much prouder than the old manifold did So I either had to modify the manifold clamps or make a new set. It would be nice to switch between the manifolds and carburettor sets if required with out having to modify the clamps each time so I machined a new set of clamps. Then I found that the DU4 in the car has a slightly longer snout on the points cap for the earth wire take off than normal. The result was the snout was to long to allow the magneto to install - So this required re machining shorter but now good to go - Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

G,day to all. Sorry you blokes but the crankshaft end float is taken up by the machining of the centre main. Six thou is ideal but some will adjust this by driving the front main towards the centre main and relocking. The clutch body (the rear main) must not be able to go forward when declutching to contact the small timing gear as this will forward thrust the crankshaft. When the clutch thrust is fully taken up between the clutch body and the back of the crankcase then at least ten thou or pref. a little more is needed to allow for the wear on the fibre disc. Use proper fibre here of the material used to make fibre timing gears not red fibre (compressed paper) If the crankshaft to clutch joint cannot slide because it is installed 180 deg out declutching may push the crank forward and the run out will eventually break the shaft. Max Burke Nulkaba 2325 Australia

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fun continues ! I installed the Breeze and could not get the car to run The only way I could get it started was to pour gas down the priming cups -Then I got it running but not well and only for 30 seconds or so. Lots of popping through the front of the carb like it was starving When it popped fuel vapour squirted out the base of the carb . In the end i replaced the Breeze with the Holley NH my car came with Now starts but still pops and misses. Drivable but not fun . So far have cleaned all the plugs . changed the gas to fresh gas Stripped the carb and blown it out with no real improvement . I have checked the timing and i'm sure it is right . I've also checked for an inlet manifold leak . The miss doesn't seem to be in one cylinder I suspect it is the magneto and started to attack that last night (it worked fine when I removed it 4 weeks ago but has sat on the bench for the last 4 weeks ) I found some oil deposits on the inside of distributor plate -which won't help. I plan to clean this off check the point gap and reinstall . Once I've got it running right I will try the Breeze again Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Problem solved no better with a clean of the magneto . So after a round of cursing I decided to start from scratch again With the car running I shorted out each plug in turn . This time the miss disappeared when I shorted out number 2 So I swapped plugs on 1 and 2 and lo and behold the miss was now on number one. Bad Plug !! My wife came running to the garage scared I had hurt myself when she heard my shout of delight:rolleyes: Changed the plug and we are running fine again. The plug itself looks fine but obviously a fault in it somewhere-Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unfortunately the noise as above continues despite the addition of thrust washers!. However this afternoon I found the cause of the problem . In the gearbox Nothing loose Nothing broken but a reverse idler gear that is adjusted too far in . Hence not clearing the gear it meshs with (in reverse) completely in neutral Resulting in intermitent contact and the noise. Phew will fix it tomorrow -Karl

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...