Ignition problem

[fhogeweg]

Hello everyone.

I have a 1959 Ford Fairlane 500 with a 223 line 6 auto. trans.

I have replaced almost everything on the car and it was running fine.

Ignition is all new and now failing. There is just a very weak or no spark there anymore.

Until now we have tried to, reset the breaker points, replace spark plugs, balance resistor, condenser, coil, wires, ground lead from distributor, rotor, dist. cap.

We also jumped the positive wire from ignition switch to positive side from coil by wiring it directly from the battery to the coil. Still no good spark!

Can an anyone give us some tips what to check next?

[rsb]

If you put a volt meter on the ground lead from distributor where the condenser connects, you should see it go from 12V-0V-12V-0V as you turn the engine over slowly by hand. That would confirm the breaker points are operating. On other cars I have seen the insulation around the points spring break down and cause a short.

Pull the coil wire first so it doesn't accidentally start while you have your hands in there.

[rick60]

The V-8 distributor has a flexible wire under the breaker plate. The insulation can become frayed and short to ground intermittently. This will cause loss of spark. I'm not sure the six has the same design but it's worth a look. The wire for the V-8 is reproduced. Good luck!

[fhogeweg]

Thanks RBS and rick. Will be checking Monday. Tomorrow our first club meeting in Belgium.

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[fhogeweg]

Today we have tried a lot but without any success.

Changed the rotor + cap and cables from a good running car and still the same.

We do have a weak spark when we put a plug into the coil directly. But on the dist. cap and the plug on a cylinder cable there is a really weak spark once every 5 seconds or so.

The coil on a 59 works on 6 volts right? There is a resistor on the firewall that has power from the ignition switch which is 12 voltsand goes to the coil with 6 volts.

Already tried to power the resistor directly to the battery positive and still no effect.

I also took off the distributor and measured the breaker points. They give a nice break/contact every time the points open and close.

Every things looks good and as it should be, but still no good spark. Also jumped the battery just to be sure.

A friend told me it could be the voltage regulator is he right?

HELP PLEASE!

[jackofalltrades70]

The 59 should have a 12v coil because your car is a 12v system.

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[fhogeweg]

That's right the car has a 12v system but what does the ballast resistor do? On all our 3 59 Ford's it transforms on the resistor from 12v to around 6. The other car even has only 4,6v on runs fine.

I think we are missing a small piece here!?

[Joseph P. Indusi]

I would try substituting a known good condenser. If the condenser is leaky or shorted it will give a weak spark. The coil and condenser form a resonant circuit when the points suddenly open.

This boosts the voltage in the primay and secondary of the coil giving a high voltage for the spark plugs.

Joe, BCA 33493

[fhogeweg]

Thanks Joe.

Will be trying that tomorrow. As told we have a good running car with same set up so changing and testing is easy.

Also bought a test lamp today so that makes it a bit easier.

Will keep you posted about it.

Thanks Ferdy

[Rusty_OToole]

Many 12 volt cars use a a 6 volt coil. They have a resistor, or resistance wire in the ignition circuit to cut the voltage to 6 while running.

Then, they have a circuit from the starter to feed a full 12 volts while the starter is turning, for a hotter spark. This assures quick starting even when the battery is low and the starter is pulling the voltage down.

You can safely power the coil with a full 12 volts, by putting a wire to the battery. Just don't leave it on for more than 15 minutes (take it off after the car starts).

I agree about the condenser.

If you know about how a points ignition system works, the Ford system is the same as an old European car. Except that the European (Bosch) system had an internal resistance coil and the American system uses a separate ballast resistor or resistance wire.

[fhogeweg]

Thanks rusty.

I was wondering what the second wire on the other end of the resistor was providing because if I disconnected it, it was still turning over.

Will do the condenser swap tomorrow.

[GLong]

Do you have a volt/ohm meter? If so, use the ohm meter to see if there is any 'leakage' between the points to the distributor housing or to ground.. to do this, turn the engine until the points are open, remove the wire from the distributor to the coil.. measure between the point arm, or the screw for the distributor wire where it exits the distributor housing.

sometimes the insulating block going through the dist. housing starts to 'leak' to ground some..

since you changed the coil, it may be one with an internal resistor, so you have a double resistor in the 12v feed to the coil internally..

As mentioned above, just put a jumper directly to the coil, bypassing the ballast resistor. The spark should then be HOT..

If you are getting a spark only say, 1 out of 5 times the points open, that usually is a bad condenser. or a bad ground on the condenser.

I'd change out the condenser if the 12v jumper doesn't get the engine running.

GLong

[fhogeweg]

Problem is partially solved!

Today we changed out the condenser with no result. After that we changed the complete distributor from our other car and it fired right up!

But we can't find the problem within the distributor. All looks good, as said before every thing looks ok.

Next step will be ordering a remanufactured distributor on RockAuto.com as we need some other parts to.

Will be letting you guys know if the problem is 100% solved after the new distributor is in place. For now thanks a lot for helping me out.

Thanks Ferdy

[Rusty_OToole]

Could be carbon tracks on the inside of the distributor cap. Or a crack. Rare, but it happens.

[GLong]

I'd bet money on a grounding problem with the through the distributor grommet. Or the moving point plate is not grounded to the distributor.

Did you look for the braided ground wire from the moving distributor plate to the fixed [grounded] distributor plate or to the distributor housing?

The center bearing for the point plate will not consistently conduct a ground through the greasy center bearing.

GLong

[JACK M]

I once had a rotor that the leaked spark thru some times.

[fhogeweg]

Problem is solved. Installed a reman distributor and the car is running strong again. Thanks to everybody that has replied and helped out!

Thanks Ferdy