Guest Thuff51 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Okay I’m back and having trouble getting the ol girl to fire. Any help on how to proceed next would be great and thank you for all those who assisted in the past on various other issues.</SPAN></SPAN>I’m working on a 1951 Buick Special that the engine (Straight 8) was rebuilt and not hooked up completely when purchased. After getting it buttoned up, listed below are the items I’ve done and now getting a slow crank when trying to fire. </SPAN></SPAN>New:</SPAN></SPAN>-Solenoid</SPAN></SPAN>-Battery</SPAN></SPAN>-Correct 6 volt cables and grounding strap (larger gauge)</SPAN></SPAN>-Plugs, points, condenser, rotor, cap, coil</SPAN></SPAN>-Dash push button installed due to carb accelerator switch being old</SPAN></SPAN>-Carburetor rebuilt</SPAN></SPAN>-Generator checked</SPAN></SPAN>Haven’t changed plug wires yet as I can’t seem to locate a set at my local parts house but they appear to be okay.</SPAN></SPAN> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 SURVIVOR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 51; IS the timing correct,close? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Besides agreeing with 55 survivor, Is this the first you've tried to turn it over? And if so, can you verify you have oil pressure? Along with that, you've indicated parts are new, has the battery been fully charged? I think it is fair to say many new batteries need a charge before the initial use. That may be more important on a six volt system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NikeAjax Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Righty-o! A fast way to get oil into the gallies is to pull the spark plugs and crank it for a while:this is the quick and dirty method! Also you may want to put a few drops down the bores, again with the sparks out...Jaybird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Besides agreeing with 55 survivor, Is this the first you've tried to turn it over? And if so, can you verify you have oil pressure? Along with that, you've indicated parts are new, has the battery been fully charged? I think it is fair to say many new batteries need a charge before the initial use. That may be more important on a six volt system.Thanks. I trickle charged battery for 72+ hours so I believe it was fully charged. Is there a way to test a 6 volt (altmeter etc) Dumb question how can you check oil pressure without engine running? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Timing maybe a bit of a challenge.. When at TDC at number 1 cyl the flywheel mark is not in the window as I would expect to see. Is it possible that whomever rebuilt motor installed the flywheel 180 degrees off? Or is it keyed to only go on one way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NikeAjax Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 One of my fave ways to get oil pressure is to pull the distributor, and with a long slot tip screw driver shaft in a drill, put it down the bore of the distributor, then turn away: you'll know you have oil pressure when it slows down...Jaybird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Ahh. So turn by hand or with a variable drill? Thanks I'll check it out. While I have the dizzy out if anyone can provide guidance on timing that would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 sorry just reread your post about the drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 SURVIVOR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 51; Is the at top dead center,both valves closed,and the point rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire at the cap going to the corrosponding {#1} plug.I don't know the firing order for straight 8s,check the valve/piston/point rotor to see if all is correct by turning the crank by hand with the plugs out. I use A plastic wire ty-wrap to stick in the plug hole to feel for correct top dead center,then look at the valve position.Does it have A clutch or is it A dynaflow automatic?Did you check the starter brushes/stator?Is the starter lined up correctly with the flywheel(misaligned). Just some thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 SURVIVOR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 51; I meant starter "armature" not stator. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Slow crank you mean the engine is turning over very slowly? Battery is up to snuff? I see you installed larger gauge battery cables for the 6 volt system. That is a must from what I understand. These ends of the battery cables are tight, free of rust/paint/goo were the cable is bolted to the block? A bad negative connection can ruin an entire day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55 SURVIVOR Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 51 Does it have spark? I'm A little confused when you say getting it to fire.A straight 8 6v will crank slower. How slow is slow?Hop on u-tube and watch one start up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 51 Does it have spark? I'm A little confused when you say getting it to fire.A straight 8 6v will crank slower. How slow is slow?Hop on u-tube and watch one start up.This is what is confusing me as well. Slow to turn over or turning over as fast as the 6 volt will carry it but will not start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 That rebuilt engine may be just too tight for even the best battery and starter. Two tricks I have used: 1) Apply 12v + through jumper cables at the starter only while cranking as a boost --- requires a competent helper; 2) If a standard transmission pull the spark plugs and tow it around the block a few times to loosen it up...just don't get desperate and try to start it by towing .Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Is it a dynaflow? If so, is it binding? Is it hard to turn by hand and did it spin easy before installing transmission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Thanks Guys. By slow crank I mean its turning but slower than I think it should but perhaps thats how 8's operate. (SBC Traditionally) Good advise on the youtube video I'll give that a look for comparison. The transmission is a Dynaflow and they were mated before I got it. However, before I got it all buttoned up with Fan,radiator etc I was able to turn the crank by hand with relative ease. I'll see if I can round up that competent helper for the 12volt jump. So bypass battery and connect directly to Starter? Do I need to be concerned with points, coil etc? I've hear you keep all lights etc off during this process.Always a great help and looking forward to see the 8 in action. I hear its quite the sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasJohn55 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So bypass battery and connect directly to Starter? Do I need to be concerned with points, coil etc? I've hear you keep all lights etc off during this process. .Thuff51,I don't recommend nor disapprove of the practice. Actually, when 12v is applied to the starter post when starter is engaged, it will backfeed to the battery and system anyway. The starter post is hard to get to and easily shorted out. I would put the +12 red cable on the battery post, cover battery with an old towel just in case the battery decides to blow and use the neg booster cable to connect and disconnect 12v. Use the engine as a connection point away from the battery. I would disconnect the battery wire from the voltage regulator in an attempt to protect it from overvoltage just in case it doesn't like 12v. The coil and points will live for a short time while cranking. Be sure all other feeds and accessories are turned off. Connect the neg to engine just after engaging starter and lift it as soon as engine fires up. Reconnect regulator wire after engine will start reliably.Check voltage at battery while cranking on 6v, if it drops below 4-4.5v it may be a dragging starter. Check voltage at starter +post and compare, difference will indicate bad connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 (edited) If she is turning over slow I would recommend rechecking all cable connections. Systematically eliminating everything in the starting circuit that can cause poor performance in the starter. Possibly the starter itself as TXJohn as stated. I'm not a big fan of giving it more juice to get it started. I have seen a battery blow. Fortunate the fella that was working near the battery was looking away at the time it went. Edited February 21, 2014 by avgwarhawk (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 John pretty well nailed the procedure. Have someone in the car cranking as normal with the 6v only; then apply the 12v only while the engine is cranking. Avoid sparks around the batteries. The total voltage in the system while 12v is applied is probably not over 8v due to the drop through the jumper cables (which will get warm). Disconnecting the voltage regulator probably is not necessary and may disable the starting circuit. The 12v battery should be on the ground and not in a modern car which may be damaged.Think this through and if uncomfortable doing it, don't do it.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Okay it appears my new battery was no bueno so I returned in and getting a much better crank speed. Still getting the timing sorted but on my way. Curious were 1951 Buick's postive or negative ground from factory? What's the easist way to indicate if that has been changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avgwarhawk Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Glad to see it was something easy to correct the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph P. Indusi Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 1951 Buick's were negative ground. Buicks were always negative ground for many years back into the 1930's at least.Joe, BCA 33493 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thuff51 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 1951 Buick's were negative ground. Buicks were always negative ground for many years back into the 1930's at least.Joe, BCA 33493Great. That helps no need to worry about changing it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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