Custom Cadillac Limosuine of Duke of Windsor up for auction

[Guest paulfrasercollect]

Hi,

The Duke and Duchess of Windsor (aka King Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson) had this Custom Cadillac Limousine made for them in 1941:

http://www.paulfrasercollectibles.com/News/Duke-of-Windsor-Cadillac-offered-without-reserve-with-RM-Auctions/15471.page

Apparently, its considered one of the finest Cadillacs ever produced and has been missing since 1952! What's more, its being offered without reserve.

Joe

[Rusty_OToole]

Is this car documented? Have seen pictures of the 1936 Buick limo used by the Duke at the time of his abdication but this is a new one on me.

Was he even in New York at the time? Isn't this when he was Governor of the Bahamas?

Edited October 24, 2013 by Rusty_OToole (see edit history)

[Guest paulfrasercollect]

Is this car documented? Have seen pictures of the 1936 Buick limo used by the Duke at the time of his abdication but this is a new one on me.

Was he even in New York at the time? Isn't this when he was Governor of the Bahamas?

“The Duchess” comes to auction in outstanding, restored condition, and it is accompanied by copies of original historic photography from General Motors, press clippings, and newsreels of the era featuring the Windsors’ with their beloved Cadillac. Further confirming the car’s royal provenance is a copy of the 1952 New York State title, bearing the Duke’s signature, address at the Waldorf, and the car’s serial number. It is estimated to fetch between $500,000 and $800,000 when it goes under the gavel next month. - from the official RM Auctions press release.

They seem pretty certain that its genuine!

[TG57Roadmaster]

The car is more than documented, this from RM's Site, it's legendary.

Read more about it here on the Cadillac Database (Scroll down the page to find it).

TG

[Guest Magoo]

Wow, great car. Very tasteful and understated for a limo.

[alsancle]

Beautiful car but I'm thinking more like 300 to 400k.

[Guest Magoo]

So, Cadillac experts: with RM projecting a sale price of $500-800K, how much of that is the royal provenance? What is the car worth without it?

[61polara]

Since it is a one of a kind car, the car and the provenance are one. One would not exist without the other.

[Bleach]

Nice to see that it's been restored. This was the last photo I had seen of it.

[Guest my3buicks]

I thought I had remembered seeing pictures of it in this condition, if memory serves me right wasn't the interior originally pink or was that another Cadillac Limo that was in need of a restoration?

Edited October 26, 2013 by my3buicks (see edit history)

[TG57Roadmaster]

Magoo,

I'm no Cadillac price expert but, when it comes to the Windsors, I think you can throw all estimates out the window.

One of my great regrets was not attending the Sothebys auction five-day NYC preview of the Duchess's jewelry collection, held later in Geneva in April, 1987. I lived in Manhattan at the time, and either forgot the dates or couldn't afford the then-exorbitant preview ticket price. The pieces were expected to fetch $7,000,000, but sold for more than $50,000,000, a record price for a private collection that has yet to be topped.

This was six months before Black Monday (remember, the plunge that led to Ferrari and all other cars' price "corrections"), and our 2013 economy isn't fully recovered, but I suggest the car will sell well above the high estimate range. For fun, let's say $1.2-1.4 million. I'm prepared to eat crow, and won't edit out this prediction post-sale.

Granted, this bespoke Cadillac isn't a brooch or bracelet that's portable, to be worn as an ornament, but we'll see if the Windsors' place in history (and their "bling") still commands a premium. I think it does.

The "Duchess" is the last full-boat, privately-commissioned (i.e., not made for company execs), GM-designed and fabricated coachbuilt conveyance of the Classic Era. That, and the car's provenance, should make for an eye-popping hammer price. We'll all know in four short weeks.

TG

[Guest Magoo]

Magoo,

I'm no Cadillac price expert but, when it comes to the Windsors, I think you can throw all estimates out the window.

One of my great regrets was not attending the Sothebys auction five-day NYC preview of the Duchess's jewelry collection, held later in Geneva in April, 1987. I lived in Manhattan at the time, and either forgot the dates or couldn't afford the then-exorbitant preview ticket price. The pieces were expected to fetch $7,000,000, but sold for more than $50,000,000, a record price for a private collection that has yet to be topped.

This was six months before Black Monday (remember, the plunge that led to Ferrari and all other cars' price "corrections"), and our 2013 economy isn't fully recovered, but I suggest the car will sell well above the high estimate range. For fun, let's say $1.2-1.4 million. I'm prepared to eat crow, and won't edit out this prediction post-sale.

Granted, this bespoke Cadillac isn't a brooch or bracelet that's portable, to be worn as an ornament, but we'll see if the Windsors' place in history (and their "bling") still commands a premium. I think it does.

The "Duchess" is the last full-boat, privately-commissioned (i.e., not made for company execs), GM-designed and fabricated coachbuilt conveyance of the Classic Era. That, and the car's provenance, should make for an eye-popping hammer price. We'll all know in four short weeks.

TG

Thanks, very interesting analysis. Lots of food for thought.

[alsancle]

I think the estimates are high. The celebrity ownership is worth something and in some cases everything (Elvis or JFK). But, given that this is a 4 door limo, although a very stylish one, I think they price will be less. Of course, I'm sure I will eat crow too.

[Guest Magoo]

I see the Duchess Cadillac was a no-sale in the auction, apparently failing to meet reserve with a high bid of $415,000. So you guys called it pretty well.

[Guest]

That particular 1941 Cadillac built by Coachcraft Ltd. was the first GM car to have " Air Foil Fender Styling" where the front fender pontoon flows to the rear fender. The only production cars to use Air Foil styling were 1942 Buick Roadmaster sedanet and convertible, and Super sedanet and convertible. This body style lasted thru 1948 in Buick only. In 1949 Buick would adopt a one year body style that was first used on all 1948 Cadillac's and Olds 98's which was a style called "Flow through" fender styling....a adaptation or natural progression of " Air Foil Styling ".

Air Foil styling;

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5176/5464029308_c8280f5200_z.jpg

Flow through styling or front fender line flowing over the rear fender;

http://ned.ronet.ru/0/1949%20Buick%20Roadmaster%20Riviera.jpg

[TG57Roadmaster]

That particular 1941 Cadillac built by Coachcraft Ltd....

The "Duchess" was a complete Fleetwood build, not Coachcraft, whose creation was heavily photo-documented by Fleetwood (GM in-house) and the Styling Section. The GM Heritage Center provided her owner with the build photos of the car in the studio, and at the time of her delivery in Manhattan.

The only production cars to use Air Foil styling were 1942 Buick Roadmaster sedanet and convertible, and Super sedanet and convertible. This body style lasted thru 1948 in Buick only.

Correct for the prewar '42's, but the '46-'48 Super and Roadmaster sedans (Models 51, 71) and Estate Wagons ('46-'48 Super Model 59, '47-'48 Roadie Model 79) also used the flow-through fender/door treatment.

Larger, a '42 Super formerly from the Lewis Jenkins Collection.

Larger, a '47 Roadmaster and '48 Fleetwood with the MATS Constellation in the late-'90's in Greenville, SC.

I attended the auction, and must eat crow for my my high bid expectations posted above. The "Duchess" is stunning to behold in person with an almost-sinister beauty, and was a style-leader well past the end of WWII. By adding 10 inches to a Series 62 chassis, the rear door openings did not become part of the rear fender as on the '42 & '47 Buick sedans seen above.

From the London Daily Mail item.

TG

Edited November 29, 2013 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)

[Guest]

The "Duchess" was a complete Fleetwood build, not Coachcraft, whose creation was heavily photo-documented by Fleetwood (GM in-house) and the Styling Section. The GM Heritage Center provided her owner with the build photos of the car in the studio, and at the time of her delivery in Manhattan.

Correct for the prewar '42's, but the '46-'48 Super and Roadmaster sedans (Models 51, 71) and Estate Wagons ('46-'48 Super Model 59, '47-'48 Roadie Model 79) also used the flow-through fender/door treatment.

Larger, a '42 Super formerly from the Lewis Jenkins Collection.

Larger, a '47 Roadmaster and '48 Fleetwood with the MATS Constellation in the late-'90's in Greenville, SC.

I attended the auction, and must eat crow for my my high bid expectations posted above. The "Duchess" is stunning to behold in person with an almost-sinister beauty, and was a style-leader well past the end of WWII. By adding 10 inches to a Series 62 chassis, the rear door openings did not become part of the rear fender as on the '42 & '47 Buick sedans seen above.

From the London Daily Mail item.

TG

Sorry guy I didn't know as one of my reference books says the Cadillac was built by Coachcraft Ltd. Wonder why they would write that? Is it possible GM gave them the plans or specifications and they built it for GM like so many cars of the 20's-30's?? Anyroad, I only mentioned 42 Buick models because that is the information I had and only saying Buick used the design through 1948. No secret though that Harley Earl had a thing for Buicks, then Cadillac, and lastly Olds. Pontiac and Chevy until 1959 were one to two styling cycles behind the other three.

[TG57Roadmaster]

For years little was really known about the Cadillac, and much was learned about it following Morgan Murphy's discovery and purchase, through his exhaustive research. Our reference books are great, but some contain misattributions, corrected with new info that's been learned after their publication. A great source of info on many of the custom Cadillacs through the years is the ever-changing Cadillac Database. (Scroll down to find the '41's, including The Duchess). And you're right, it's a great thing that Earl liked Buicks (a lot); for '42 they offered an amazing range of models...

Larger

TG

Edited November 30, 2013 by TG57Roadmaster (see edit history)