Tax Man Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I haven't posted in a long time but I check this forum from time to time keeping up with the Reatta world.Anyways, I've posted my concern about my starting trouble before but it was diffucult to explain in words and have you guys try to diagnose and suggest fixes based off of my lousy explanation. I decided to record a video instead and give you a better perspective on my problem. I suspect it has something to do with the fuel side of the system like the fuel pump or fuel filter. I just replaced the ignition module because it fried then I put in new spark plugs and wires and although it helped performance wise it still has trouble starting. About a month ago, before I replaced the module,wires,and plugs, I put some fuel injector cleaner in the tank and drove from Denver to Pueblo (about 100 miles) and for about a week after that it started up fine but then went back to doing the same thing. The only other feasible problem that a buddy of mine said it might have is a parasitic draw, but I park it outside when I go to Denver and it sits overnight sometimes it sits for a day or two and the battery has never died. One of my automotive teachers in the past said it could have a GM slow start system, but I haven't seen anything like that mentioned on this forum so I doubt that. After the new module didn't solve the problem I decided I have to consult the Reatta experts, anybody that I've asked in the past gave me a half-ass diagnosis and it never is what they suspect. I love my Reatta, it very dependable and its a blast to drive but its pretty embarrassing when I get in it after school and everyone in the parking lot does a double take when it doesn't start the first time.I put this video on youtube with a link here- Reatta starting problem - YouTube I put a speech bubble in the video so you know when to listen for this buzzing that I hear when I put the key in (key-on engine-off) that lasts for about 7-10 seconds. Someone told me its just priming itself like you have to prime a lawn mower, but it sounds so decrepit that it might be the problem. I show how it doesn't start right away when I crank it. I leave it alone and let it sit for a second, then I crank again and it starts right up. I recorded this video this morning, it was about 40-45 degrees in my garage so it was a little cold. Thanks in advance for any and all help, it may just be a characteristic of my Reatta who knows.If the link doesn't work give me a little bit and I'll try to figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The buzzing you hear before starting is the is the brake pump running to build pressure in the system. That is normal. You could have a bad fuel pump relay keeping the engine from starting until the engine builds oil pressure. Do you hear the fuel pump (in the rear of the car) run a few seconds when you first turn the key on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan at larescorp Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Pull the vacuum line off of your fuel pressure regulator and see if it smells like gas. I would suspect that might be your problem. I'm no reatta expert so there might be better solutions from someone else, but as far as my past experience goes when a car acts the way yours is it is usually the fuel pressure regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Man Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 I thought the buzzing was normal but I thought I'd mention it. I forgot to mention that it has this problem after it sits for more than two hours. I will check out the rear to hear the pump later I have class at the moment but I will definitely look at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2seater Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Definitely the brake pump you hear under the hood, just as Ronnie said. Fuel pump is easier to hear at, or near, the rear, and it only runs for 2-3 seconds at key on. The best diagnostic tool for fuel supply diagnosis is a fuel pressure gauge. Harbor Freight and others have for not a lot of money. May be available at a FLAPS to borrow. If the pressure doesn't jump right up to the 40 psi range at key on, the relay may be bad as mentioned. A different sort of workaround is to jumper 12v+ to the green female spade connector that should be around the area of the brake master cylinder or closer to the fender. It may require a little hunting. Jumper 12v to the connector to force the fuel pump to run prior to the first start when the problem occurs and see if that helps. If it does, odds are the fuel pump isn't priming as it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Sounds like the check valve in the fuel pump isn't working to hold pressure when off. I wouldn't go to the trouble to change it out just for that. Clean or replace the fuel pump relay as suggested and turn key on and off a few times to build up the fuel pressure before cranking. If that doesn't work you have a bad pump or regulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The buzzing you hear before starting is the is the brake pump running to build pressure in the system. That is normal. You could have a bad fuel pump relay keeping the engine from starting until the engine builds oil pressure. Do you hear the fuel pump (in the rear of the car) run a few seconds when you first turn the key on?My Reatta did exactly what yours is doing. A new fuel pump relay fixed the problem. The relay is a very simply repair. As Ronnie stated, listen for the fuel pump to turn on when the key is turned to the "on" position. If you don't hear it, the relay is most likely the culprit. A cheap and easy fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Corvanti Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 i also went thru a similar situation. i started with "easy" first: fuel pressure check with the gauge mentioned above, with the key on. the regulator for gas smell and vacuum when running. check/replace the rubber vacuum hose.a semi-clogged fuel filter. replace the fuel pump relay.replace the fuel pump.except for the last one, all easy to do! Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Man Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 After class I read what you guys were saying about the fuel pump relay and Im beginning to think that's what it is. I went to listen for the fuel pump when I turned the key on and didn't hear it. I'll check for fuel pressure tomorrow with the key on before I condemn the relay. Thank you guys again for your help, I'll let you know if that solves the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 There was a TSB about cold weather prime. One test is to turn the key on, wait five seconds, turn key off, wait five seconds, turn key on, wait five seconds then try to start. The fix was a different PROM. Looks like you have an 88 or 89. What is your prom ID (ED99) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Man Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 There was a TSB about cold weather prime. One test is to turn the key on, wait five seconds, turn key off, wait five seconds, turn key on, wait five seconds then try to start. The fix was a different PROM. Looks like you have an 88 or 89. What is your prom ID (ED99) ?Yes padgett, I have an 89 model, sorry I should have mentioned that. I'm pretty green in the automotive industry, what exactly do you mean prom ID? Is that a code in the ECT self diagnosis?Also where is the fuel pump relay located? I have a 1990 service manual and I was looking for it there but I didn't find it. If anyone wants to trade me for a 1989 manual I wouldn't be offended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 In an 89 it is the one on the left of the three in a row on the firewall inside the engine compartment drivers side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Man Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 In an 89 it is the one on the left of the three in a row on the firewall inside the engine compartment drivers side.[ATTACH=CONFIG]178039[/ATTACH]Thank you Mc_Reatta. Now I know what I'm looking for when I get a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 If you go into Diagnostics on the CRT (hold temp down and off in HVAC screen to enter) - ECM > DATA > ED99 (easiest to just go back) will display the PROM id. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Thank you Mc_Reatta. Now I know what I'm looking for when I get a new one.I'm sure you don't want to wait for one to be shipped but this is the one you're looking for or one comparable to it.ACDelco 15-8386 Multi Purpose Relay for the Buick Reatta1988-90 ABS, BRAKE & FUEL PUMP RELAY*Replaces GM #25553347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tax Man Posted February 15, 2013 Author Share Posted February 15, 2013 Thank you guys, the relay was the cause of the problem. I put in a new one today and I heard the fuel pump engage for the first time with the key on engine off and it started right up. I let it sit for 3 hours and came back to test again and its starting like a champ. I would have never suspected that a relay would be the problem. Thanks a bunch again, go team Reatta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Where is the relay on a 91? I think I have the same problem. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Believe it's inside the center console, driver's side to the front of the fuse panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Thanks, I know the fuse panel is on the passenger side of the console, would the relay be in front of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Thanks, I know the fuse panel is on the passenger side of the console, would the relay be in front of that?This will show you the location...Fuses And Breakers - Console Location - Reatta Owners Journal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Ronnie, perfect! Where in the picture is the fuel pump relay? I am not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Is it in the hidden relay panel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 One last question so I dont wreck anything, how do you get the side of the console off? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Ronnie, perfect! Where in the picture is the fuel pump relay? I am not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer! I don't know about a '91 model. On my '88 model the fuel pump relay is mounted on the firewall. My last post was to show where the relay center is located on a '91. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Is it in the hidden relay panel?According to the FSM, it is relay "C" in this panel on the passenger's side of the console.In an 80s, this would be the location of the courtesy light relay. Edited September 3, 2013 by Mc_Reatta (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 One last question so I dont wreck anything, how do you get the side of the console off? Thanks again.Bunch of T-15 torx head screws. If the ones between the seat and the console haven't been removed and left out previously, may require removal of the seat to get to them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gotitright Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Wow, would not have guessed looking at the, "picture - image?) portrayed. Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) I don't know about a '91 model. On my '88 model the fuel pump relay is mounted on the firewall. My last post was to show where the relay center is located on a '91.That is a photo of the fuse center - which is on the drivers side of the console. The relay center is on the opposite, passenger, side. Interestingly, the owners manuals, both '90 and '91, state that the fuse panel is on the passenger side - which is wrong.Gotitright: Just remove the little cover on the console next to the passenger side footwell. There is a little bulge on the bottom of the cover which you can get a finger under to unsnap it. Edited September 3, 2013 by wws944 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 That is a photo of the fuse center - which is on the drivers side of the console. The relay center is on the opposite, passenger, side. Interestingly, the owners manuals, both '90 and '91, state that the fuse panel is on the passenger side - which is wrong.Gotitright: Just remove the little cover on the console next to the passenger side footwell. There is a little bulge on the bottom of the cover which you can get a finger under to unsnap it.My bad. It's been a long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mc_Reatta Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 It would be nice if a 90s owner would supply Ronnie a picture of the fuse center relay layout to show how that is different from an 80s to add to his tutorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) Here is the drivers side fuse panel. Note the late-1990+ headlight relay zip tied to that big black cable housing on the left:Here is the passenger side fuse/relay panel: Edited September 3, 2013 by wws944 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 wws944, Do you mind if I add your photos to the tutorial? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 wws944, Do you mind if I add your photos to the tutorial?Sure - go ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 I should probably re-shoot the drivers side with the same flash setting though, so the carpet colors match... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Thanks. It will probably be a couple of days before I get around to adding the photos to the tutorial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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