Title Sevice's

[John348]

I came across a car that is for sale, everything seemed good, price, and what I was looking for. After further conversations with the owner, I had a few questions before I took the 200 mile drive to look at it, just to confirm it was what it was. So I asked, "I am sure the paperwork is good but I have to ask anyway, any issues I should be aware of"? So now I get "funny you should ask, the car is titled and tagged in the state of *** ****** to me but the numbers on the paperwork do not match the VIN on the dash, and the title says it is a 76 but it is a 71" Before I go any further with this the owner seems like a nice guy and more of a victim this is how he bought it from Michigan on E-Bay, He has owned it for 6 years. He agreed to give me the VIN later this week of the car and I will have it checked to make sure that it is clear. The owner is pretty much disgusted with the whole thing and is willing to drop the price but does not want to spend the money on the title. This car looks like it has been on the dragstrip most of it's existence, and has all of the pre 1975 vintage race stuff still intact, it is pretty cool. it is street legal (barely). Knowing the history I can see how the title became a situation over the years, these type of cars always change hands and seldom have any paperwork when they become legal. The price of the car is under $5,000 and it is turn key running low 11's high 10's

I checked a few title services on line and it seems around $700 has any of you used one of these services?

[dan at larescorp]

First thing I would do is check the vin that is on the car to make sure it doesn't come back stolen. A lot of car theifs will take a car, and re sell it using a title to a car that has long since been crushed. You dont want to be the next victim. I'm not sure about NY but in MN if you file that you have the car, and have a bill of sale for it, the listed owner of the car has 90 days to get the car (and pay you back you purchase price, as long as it isn't stolen) or its considered an abandoned vehicle. Once that happens you can file for a new title in your name. Thats the only way I have found to keep the cost under $200.

[John348]

NYS DMV is filled with people who don't want to be there, so nobody cares... nobody! Remember nobody ever met a person saying I hope I get that job at the DMV.

I also have a house in Florida and that is where I was going to register it. Last year I registered my 85 Caprice Wagon from New York and they physically check the VIN to the paperwork. The guy who has this car now says I have plates and a title, but it is not a problem untill there is a problem and a police officer looks at the VIN tag.

This car looks like a Phase III Vega from Motion Performance in Baldwin NY, those cars were sold all over the country. it had most of the stuff those cars came with.... except a clear title

[ted sweet]

run forest run

[John348]

There are enough of these services out there someone had to have used one, what about all of these cars dug up in fields and found in barns, no way they all had paperwork, but then again Ted only those of us in NYS understand the joy of dealing with our DMV, downstate it is really, really, really, screwed up!!!

[Guest marlin65]

John,I live in Florida and the DMV at least in my small town are real PITA"S.Florida discourages registering antique cars,who knows why but I've been told that by many people.Anyway it took forever to get my 60 Corvair "legal".It had a clear Michigan title but for whatever reason the DMV could not pull up he VIN.I see now why they have an armed guard at the office. Ed

[John348]

Florida is where I will be having it titled if I get clear NYS in my name. I transferred my 1985 Caprice to Florida from NY and I could not believe they come out and checked the VIN to the paperwork

[Scooter Guy]

There are enough of these services out there someone had to have used one, what about all of these cars dug up in fields and found in barns, no way they all had paperwork, but then again Ted only those of us in NYS understand the joy of dealing with our DMV, downstate it is really, really, really, screwed up!!!

Cars with no paperwork are different than cars with wrong paperwork.

If you decide to buy this car and decide to use a title service, my advice to you would be to proceed as if the car has zero paperwork rather than the car has a title with the wrong VIN and the wrong year. The existing tile (in a legal sense anyway) is not title to the car you want to buy, which is likely how the DMV will see it, of course. They won't just take it as a typo and go in and fix the numbers to match.

So, for me it would come down to buying the car without a title or not buying it at all. Unless it was strictly (always and forever) going to be a race car, I wouldn't buy it. You might go through a title mill and come out with a title, or you might find out it's stolen. Only you can determine if you want to take that risk.

I also know that I would NOT accept the title to the wrong car (wrong VIN and wrong year = wrong title to me) and definitely would not use it to try to get legit paperwork. That could be the beginning of all sorts of trouble. I wouldn't want that piece of paper in my possession at all!

[Paul Dobbin]

Florida has tightended up on this Title thing. I predict Florida will reject your transfer request because nothing matches.

They know the Title Services and rules in other states and get real upset if they think it's not 100% correct.

After living there for 50 years,, I'll never again buy anthing without a clear clean correct title, no matter how good the deal is.

They won't even let you junk a car in Florida now without a title.

[John348]

Thanks a lot guys! I guess if this deal smells now, I know it will really stink later. Sometimes you need someone to talk you out of things. I was not sure about the title service and Florida reaction to it. I could get a title for the car for around $750 from the service from the state of Maine, in my name with the VIN on the car, then register it in NYS,another $200 + then Florida....... but with the internet and data bases I had my concerns that it might gat flagged that it was registered in two other states in only a few months.

Paul, I came across another car today located in Florida, that I am going to look at next week with IL paperwork, all clear with an open title to the owner before, any idea how Florida will take to that?

[dan at larescorp]

I came across another car today located in Florida, that I am going to look at next week with IL paperwork, all clear with an open title to the owner before, any idea how Florida will take to that?

As long as no one has filled out the buyers portion of the title, and the PO signed the seller portion it should be fine. If they put a sales date on it you might have to pay an extra fine for it not being transferred right away but I think its only like $10.

Edited January 24, 2013 by dan@larescorp (see edit history)

[lump]

In Ohio, you must have a title for cars. So if you make a fabulous barn find, purchasing an old car from the original owner (for example), who lost his title long ago, you cannot get a new title legally in Ohio. I once researched and wrote a long and detailed article about this in CAMARO CORRAL magazine. I sent an assistant to the Bureau of Motor Vehicles in Columbus, where the director escorted him on an arranged tour. He witnessed state employees shredding hundreds of old titles, as fast as they could go. The rule was, if a title has not been used for a transfer of ownership or the registration of current license plates for 5 years, then that title was destroyed, with no records kept of it anywhere! So if you have an old project car in your garage with no tags on it for over 5 years, and then lose your Ohio title, you are out of luck. It's been this way in Ohio for many years.

To solve this problem, Ohio car collectors have learned over the years to legally "sell" their cars via bill-of-sale to people in states which only require a bill-of-sale for older vehicles...like Arkansas or Georgia. Then the person who "bought" your car through the mail can take your notarized bill-of-sale into his or her title bureau in their state, and obtain a title in their name from that state. Then they can legally "sell" your car back to you, sign the title on the back with a notary's witness stamp, and mail you back the title. Then you take that title to your Ohio Registrar. They will send you to a local car dealership who will inspect the car to be sure that the title matches the VIN #, etc, and certify the car as "ok." Finally, Ohio will issue you an Ohio title in your name.

It goes without saying that you really are selling your car to another person, and technically there is risk in that. Also, you had better be VERY sure that the car was never stolen in its history, or you will have serious legal issues.

I have been talking with folks at SEMA, hoping to get some new laws proposed for Ohio to resolve this silly situation. But such things take time.

Edited January 25, 2013 by lump
typo error (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

If the title has somebody eles's name as the buyer, Florida will make that name get a Title to tranfer to you then because it's from another state, they' inspect the vin# and run a national search on the vin#. Be careful.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Paul Dobbin
spilling error (see edit history)

[John348]

This one I am thinking of buying, it rough but has all the stuff that is hard to get if I find another one. The Car is a Chevrolet Monza Mirage, pretty rare to very rare, around 4.000 made, this one is complete but Im better off looking for a solid original 2+2 and biuld someting out of the two, I hvae a feeling Im stuck bringing the paperwork to NY get it registerd ther in my name then take it (paperwork)to Forida to title it....... I don't know

[lump]

Biscayne,

The MOST important thing is to determine for sure if the car has a clean history. Sometimes cars were stolen long ago...but usually this is not the case (most stolen cars get chopped into pieces immediately, and all VIN numbers destroyed). However, sometimes people simply abandon an old car...leaving it on someone else's property, or etc. Then the car might lie around for 20 years or so, and finally someone might decide to sell it...without ever having legally owned it (IE: Such as a landlord with a car that was abandoned by a long-gone tenant on his rental property years ago, etc). Another common occurence is when someone owes money on a car for the loan, but fails to make all the payments, then hides it so it cannot be repossessed. In these cases, however, the cars are eventually reported stolen anyway.

If you really want the car, then ask a police officer to run the VIN for you, to make sure it doesn't show up on a stolen list. Cops are always actively interested in recovering stolen cars, and you should be able to get someone in your state to check the VIN. If it doesn't show up stolen, you are PROBABLY ok. You can buy the car with a notarized bill-of-sale, signed by the seller. Just be sure that the bill-of-sale states that the seller states in writing on the BOS that he/she does own the car, and does have the legal right to sell it. Make sure you or the notary sees a legitimate ID of the person doing the selling, to verify that the name on your BOS is the name of the person you are buying it from.

I'm no lawyer, but as far as I understand it (as a layperson), by having that notarized Bill-of-Sale in your possession, the worst that could happen to you would be if it turned up stolen from some other state, and some day in the future someone might claim it. But it would be pretty tough, I think, for anyone to try and hassle you for receiving stolen property (because you have done some due diligence before buying it). But if you get that bill-of-sale as I described it, and have the VIN checked before you buy, the odds are very good that all will be well, after you get a new title through a bill-of-sale state. (Keep in mind that this bill-of-sale maneuver only works for cars that are 25 years old or more, in most states).

[Scooter Guy]

I'm no lawyer, but as far as I understand it (as a layperson), by having that notarized Bill-of-Sale in your possession, the worst that could happen to you would be if it turned up stolen from some other state, and some day in the future someone might claim it. But it would be pretty tough, I think, for anyone to try and hassle you for receiving stolen property (because you have done some due diligence before buying it). But if you get that bill-of-sale as I described it, and have the VIN checked before you buy, the odds are very good that all will be well, after you get a new title through a bill-of-sale state. (Keep in mind that this bill-of-sale maneuver only works for cars that are 25 years old or more, in most states).

This reminded me of one other thing that has not been mentioned that could be a perfectly legal way to buy and title the car that was originally mentioned: bonded title programs. This may absolutely not apply since I don't know the laws in NY or in FL, but I know that Texas has a bonded title program. I will not go into all of the details of how this works in Texas (you can easily find it online if you really want to know), but basically you submit a bill or sale and statement of facts to the county tax assessor that they can either accept or deny. If all is well, they then make you buy a bond for 1.5x the value of the vehicle. They will run VIN checks, inspect the vehicle, etc., and if all works out, you end up with a bonded title for the vehicle for a period of 3 years. During that period potential owners and/or lien holders may come forward and "claim" the vehicle, so going for a bonded title isn't without its risks either. After 3 years and no stakeholders coming forward, the state of TX will issue you a "real" clean title. There is the potential for a the car and lot of money to be lost if you don't have an "honest" car, so you need to be darn sure it was NEVER stolen and doesn't have any sort of liens on it...if it does, you're now the one on the hook.

Just like with title services, there are people out there willing to do the work for you for a fee, but you can do it yourself. If you're not the kind of person that is willing to follow detailed instructions and deal with the red tape (including people that say "no" or give you the run around even when you've followed procedure to a "t"), getting a bonded title yourself is probably not for you. I have a friend that went through the process for a Porsche he has. He was careful and took his time and has had no issues. 1 year left on the bond for him and he'll be good to go.