Toronado Pricing

[hullinger]

I'm struggling with pricing on a '66 Toronado that I'm interested in buying! It seems that Old Car Price Guide, NADA and Hagerty all have wildly different pricing for a '66 and '67 Toronado. Are there any early Toronado experts that can steer me in the right direction in regards to pricing? I'm looking at a '66 that is in about a #2 condition with excellent interior, paint, brightwork, 85K miles and rebuilt engine and trans. My gut is telling me around around the $10K range but I can't get a sense of the market for these cars.

Thanks,

Chris

[starfireelvis]

Surprisingly, for as revolutionary as they were, especially the '66-'67 models, these landmark vehicles are quite underpriced, IMHO (so are Buick Rivieras of the same era). In fact, if you look at the prices for a '66 Olds Starfire (the last year of that model, only available as a coupe, and the least valued in terms of what the price guides say of the '61-'66 Starfires), they still are valued higher than a '66 Toronado--Motor Trend's Car Of The Year, and one of Oldsmobile's shining stars.

Your gut at $10K for a #2 condition car is about right on--you'd think they'd be higher, but they aren't--especially in the economy the last four years or so. As I recall (going from memory, don't have an OCPG in front of me), the '66 SF in the same condition would be around $12K, and the Toronado about a thousand less, give or take. But, if you're looking for a Toro, that's to your benefit! I read an article from about two decades ago that predicted these cars would be in the $25K price range within a decade, but that never materialized. Still, I believe sooner or later, they will catch on, and in a big way. Just too great of a car for it to be anything but just a matter of when...

The '66 Toronados are "growing on me" the last few years--would love to have one, but have to get that gaudy '58 Ninety-Eight Coupe first!

[Oldsfan]

Is this the beige one?

I had a '67 that I bought in '01 for around $6k. Loaded one-owner with bucket seats and console in a non-recommended color combination. Needed very little. I had it for about 6 months and sold it for $10,300. I took it to Hershey and put what I thought was a stupid price on it. Apparently it wasn't stupid enough. I wasn't really looking to sell it, but if someone was gonna give me $10,3k, it was getting sold. That car has since changed owners and the current owner bought it for less than I sold it for. I don't remember the figure. The former owner "got tired" of it and wanted something else. He didn't mind losing money on the deal. I know a guy selling a real nice one (the beige one I refer to). I don't know what he's asking, but I'm betting it's more than $10k.

Paul

[D Yaros]

In my travels around the net, especially looking /for at Olds material, one impression that stands out to me is how affordable the early Toronados are today.

Edited February 28, 2013 by D Yaros (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I remain skeptical of these price guides, since there aren't enough of these cars sold at auction to form a statistically valid database. Also keep in mind that most of these auctions are not the real world as far as pricing is concerned. I prefer to search completed auctions on ebay, where cash actually changes hands. In the last 30 days, seven 1966-67 Toros have come up on ebay. None met reserve and none sold. Reserve/buy-it-now prices ranged from ~$9K to over $12K. Again, until cash changes hands, any "bids" that don't meet reserve are meaningless, since you have no way of knowing whether or not these are valid bids or simply shill bids

[starfireelvis]

I remain skeptical of these price guides, since there aren't enough of these cars sold at auction to form a statistically valid database. Also keep in mind that most of these auctions are not the real world as far as pricing is concerned. I prefer to search completed auctions on ebay, where cash actually changes hands. In the last 30 days, seven 1966-67 Toros have come up on ebay. None met reserve and none sold. Reserve/buy-it-now prices ranged from ~$9K to over $12K. Again, until cash changes hands, any "bids" that don't meet reserve are meaningless, since you have no way of knowing whether or not these are valid bids or simply shill bids

You know Joe, maybe my memory ain't what it used to be, but I cannot EVER recall any Toronado crossing the block (at least in the televised coverage) at any of the Barrett-Jackson shows I've seen (er, recorded and zipped through) the last several years, though I did miss the summer one where that red '59 Super 88 convertible (I think that's what it was) went for something like $55K. They are too busy doing the 442s and 442's only, it seems, with an occasional '50s Olds, and (be still my beating heart) two '62 Starfires this year--one at the the very end of the coverage in Scottsdale, where the announcers (except for Steve Magnante still doing his job on stage) gave it short shrift, which garnered $50K for that Garnet Mist convertible, and the Wedgewood Mist coupe that went for $19K in the Spring at (was it) Palm Beach?

I surely would have remembered a '66 or '67 Toro rolling across the screen--maybe the RM auctions on Velocity have shown some.

Guess we could go back through the issues of Old Cars Weekly to see the auction results and check out how any of the early Toronado's fared.

[The Continental]

Old Car Price Guide is probably the best guide out of those three. Besides being a GM coupe I like these for being a throwback to the Cord. Do many Cord owners have one of these? These cars may do better in the future, but they will never be up there with a Cord.

[hullinger]

Guys, thanks for the input. Joe, I follow the eBay auctions too and that is how I derive some sort of real time costs for a vehicle. Paul, here is the Toronado I'm considering. It's billed as being an outstanding original with 85K miles, one repaint about 10 years ago, chrome wheels, rebuilt engine, trans, front axles and disc brake addition. The seller was asking $16K, we have an agreement for $11.5K but I'm starting to think I need to be closer to $10K. It is the 'right' color for me and I love the idea of the rebuilt drivetrain and disc brakes, but I'm not sure it's worth paying a premium.

Chris

Edited October 3, 2012 by hullinger (see edit history)

[starfireelvis]

Old Car Price Guide is probably the best guide out of those three. Besides being a GM coupe I like these for being a throwback to the Cord. Do many Cord owners have one of these? These cars may do better in the future, but they will never be up there with a Cord.

Absolutely--there have to be about a couple dozen obvious styling attributes of the Toronado that harken back to the Cord ranging from subtle to blatant; perhaps the best-ever real-life "morphing" of a car from one era to another. Just like there was no other car on the road back in the 1930s that looked like a Cord, no other car in 1966 looked like an Olds Toronado...

[Guest BJM]

I'm struggling with pricing on a '66 Toronado that I'm interested in buying! It seems that Old Car Price Guide, NADA and Hagerty all have wildly different pricing for a '66 and '67 Toronado. Are there any early Toronado experts that can steer me in the right direction in regards to pricing? I'm looking at a '66 that is in about a #2 condition with excellent interior, paint, brightwork, 85K miles and rebuilt engine and trans. My gut is telling me around around the $10K range but I can't get a sense of the market for these cars.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

I purchased a Dubonnet 66 in 1997 and restored it. It had 101,000 miles. I would want to see receipts on the engine rebuild. I rebuilt mine - provided labor - and the parts cost was $3,000 in 1998 dollars. I rebuilt the trans.

Have you driven the car? Shifts and acceleration need to be smooth. These early front drive cars (drivetrain) are a b***h to get in and out. Make sure there are ZERO leaks underneath.

Disc brakes upgrade, if done well, is a good move. These cars had inadequate drum brakes that over-heated and had fade. Again, drive the car and make sure brake pedal feel is smooth and straightforward. The 66-67 Toronado really was too much technology all at once. About 35 pounds of wiring. Make sure all vacuum lines are correctly hooked up and headlights work well.

Paint looks good, interior is good and seat pattern is correct. Obviously chrome wheels are a nice option. The better low mileage cars are $15,000 and worth every penny. Don't go by price guides-worthless. Without a personal inspection this looks like a $10,000 to $12,000 car.

Here's the catch. YOU must love it and want to keep it. It won't be worth more then $12,000 in a few years. Thankfully, you are looking at value so as not to over-pay, not the "flip price". I would say $10,000 is a good price for this car.

Thanks for considering a Toronado. I love them and the early Eldorado. Eldorado prices are about the same. I have owned 2 1967 Eldorados.

Edited October 3, 2012 by BJM (see edit history)

[Oldsfan]

I'm thinking $11.5k is a little strong (and he was originally at $16k?). I see cracked weatherstrips. The tailpanel in incorrect - probably because it needed chromed and they didn't want to spend the money. The wheels are incorrect, probably because of the disc conversion. There's a Mickey Mouse overflow bottle, and a pop-top radiator cap - those aren't the end of the world, but they are little details that a person ask themselves what else is Mickey Mouse. I'd want this car on a lift to check for rust in the floors, trunk and rear 1/4s.

Cars like this make me think I should have kept mine.

As I mentioned before, I know a guy selling one. He restored it about 10 years ago. It was originally Dubonnet and is now Beige. It has a Dubonnet interior. Loaded - air, cruise, original floor mats. I have no idea what the asking price.

Paul

[The Continental]

Like the banner in the picture says, tell him to "just show me the carfax"

[hullinger]

Oldsfan and others, thanks a bunch for your insight on the car and the pricing. This car has the right color for me as I really prefer this burgundy over any of the lighter colors like beige, regardless of price. I did go back and confirm the rebuild of the drivetrain from about 10 years ago and the rust free nature of the car but because it's too far away I can't inspect and confirm first. I did renegotiate on the price and got it down $1500. The little things like the overflow tank and such is relatively minor to me as my plan is to drive the wheels off this thing. I did notice the rear panel was missing the chrome pieces and figured they were painted over as a short cut. Overall though, I'm feeling more comfortable with the car and price and I'm ready to pull the trigger now. Just need to figure out shipping next.

Chris

[NTX5467]

If you might want to see what auction results might be, if there are any, you can go into the particular auction company's website and look at all of the auctions they have archived there . . . with sale amounts and such. Also, a nice place to see pictures of nice cars (generally) AND also see some which are not quite as original as when they left the factory.

Just put the make of vehicle (and possibly model and model year) into their search engine and it should bring up the particular vehicles they handled.

Looks like a nice car, though, from what I can see.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[hullinger]

Thanks for the tip. I did a quick search and came upon this.

Search by Sales - Auction Results | RM AUCTIONS | Classic Car Auctions Company

I assume these cars are the trailered type and not driven, but they certainly are outstanding. In this list, I also saw the same car show up a second time three years later and garner a nice $20K profit.

Edited October 5, 2012 by hullinger (see edit history)