Paul Falabella Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Anyone have any luck with any of the R12 substitutes available. R12 available on ebay but expensive and don't know the source. Freeze 12 no longer produced. Anyone use a product called EnviroSafe es12a or Industrial12a ?Link to site:Enviro-Safe Refrigerants Manufacturer purports this product to be fully compatible with and can even be mixed with R12. No mods necessary and works better than R12. Read that the compressors in 55's were pretty rugged but don't want to push my luck.Any experiences ?Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Envirosafe didn't work for me (possibly operator error on pulling vacuum). I am using Freeze 12. They do sell it on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Envirosafe didn't work for me (possibly operator error on pulling vacuum). I am using Freeze 12. They do sell it on eBay.Envirosafe says not to pull a vacuum before installing and that did not work because it froze up internally. Discussion with their technical support said that for systems with a rear evaporator you should use their industrial product. The suggestion that they supply that product at no charge or reduced charge was declined, so it was not tried.Any of the substitutes for R-12 should use Ester oil (never Pag oil) since the original mineral oil will not circulate correctly. Some substitutes are mixtures that leak out at different rates; some are flammable (so is gasoline and there is much more of that); 1,1 Difluoroethane (R-152A) is just about as efficient as R-12 and has many of the same properties and has been used successfully by some. It is not widely available as a dedicated refrigerant, but is the ingredient in 3M Duster. I would consider it if I run out of R-12. I have seen R-134a used in a 55 with mediocre results.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Falabella Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Envirosafe says not to pull a vacuum before installing and that did not work because it froze up internally. Discussion with their technical support said that for systems with a rear evaporator you should use their industrial product. The suggestion that they supply that product at no charge or reduced charge was declined, so it was not tried.Any of the substitutes for R-12 should use Ester oil (never Pag oil) since the original mineral oil will not circulate correctly. Some substitutes are mixtures that leak out at different rates; some are flammable (so is gasoline and there is much more of that); 1,1 Difluoroethane (R-152A) is just about as efficient as R-12 and has many of the same properties and has been used successfully by some. It is not widely available as a dedicated refrigerant, but is the ingredient in 3M Duster. I would consider it if I run out of R-12. I have seen R-134a used in a 55 with mediocre results.WillieEnviroSafe tech advisor Randy also suggested Industrial12a. Noticed Freeze12 on ebay available as Freeze12, Freeze12 with oil, and Freeze12 with stop leak. Any difference? And will any special fittings be needed to install? I am not doing it, buddy with service station is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 You should not need oil if the system has oil..if unsure add 2-4 oz. You will need a service wrench like Klein Tools® U.S. Steel Ratcheting Refrigeration Wrench, 5 1/2 in (L) | Staples® .Otherwise use normal R-12 hoses, etc. You can figure out the can tap after you have the product, but a side puncture type should work.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Falabella Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 OK got a hold of 7 pounds of R12. If system is bone dry how much will it take? Can't find any reference to system capacity in shop manual. And is receiver going need replacement. Read somewhere about putting additional drier along chassis plumbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 5 pounds. I just fill just to the point that the sight glass shows liquid only; one of my references says to add 1/2 pound after that point; it seems to blow more oil out the front seal when I did that. If you have not serviced the compressor by replacing the seal and O-rings, I advise that you consider it. Those old rubber parts are crumbly and will soon leak.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Falabella Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 That compressor is an A-5? Who sells those parts? The usual sources don't seem to carry parts for this year A/C systems. Any services do this type of work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZRIV Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) That compressor is an A-5? Who sells those parts? The usual sources don't seem to carry parts for this year A/C systems. Any services do this type of work?Classic Auto Air - Air Conditioning & Heating for 70’s & Older Cars & Trucks.http://www.classicautoair.com/GM_OEM_Compressor_Parts.html - Scroll down after opening this link Edited June 28, 2012 by JZRIV Added second link (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 http://forums.aaca.org/f162/low-tech-tips-mid-50s-buicks-301055.htmlAlso on my website.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Falabella Posted June 29, 2012 Author Share Posted June 29, 2012 Spoke with fellow at Classic A/C in Florida who suggested determining condition of condenser by first disconnecting lines then putting mineral spirits in top fitting and air forcing through to lower fitting, catching in a white cloth to see extent of corrosion if any. Anyone heard of this test? Makes sense if condenser is steel and been empty some time. Fellow says any rust would get into compressor when system is charged and likely cause it's demise. Probably need a rebuild anyway. Quoted 550.00 for that. They also rebuild receivers and refurb condensers . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 PaulI have never had any problem with corrosion or foreign material in the system. The filter drier you will install in the liquid line should catch anything that gets loose. There is also a screen in the compressor on the return side. A leak would be the only reason to remove it. My discussions with Classic left me with the impression they did not understand the system and were all about modifying it...for a price. I can give you guidance to fix it yourself. Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Spoke with fellow at Classic A/C in Florida who suggested determining condition of condenser by first disconnecting lines then putting mineral spirits in top fitting and air forcing through to lower fitting, catching in a white cloth to see extent of corrosion if any. Anyone heard of this test? Makes sense if condenser is steel and been empty some time. Fellow says any rust would get into compressor when system is charged and likely cause it's demise. Probably need a rebuild anyway. Quoted 550.00 for that. They also rebuild receivers and refurb condensers .Did they offer to provide an illustrated scale of what discoloration went with which level of corrosion? Might be that this was the best way to wash out the old oil from the condenser?One time I bought a condenser from a salvage yard and had it pressure checked by a competent radiator shop we used. It "passed", so it was installed in the car. It also passed the "add freon and check for leaks" test. But after about 1 hour run time, it started leaking at every solder joint. No cooling and lots of a/c oil!Used to be that you could purchase "flush solvent" for a/c systems. Pricing and other EPA issues stopped that. Then GM started to recommend an inline filter to catch "trash" from compressor failures. Changing the filter until there was nothing else to catch.Regards,NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Falabella Posted June 30, 2012 Author Share Posted June 30, 2012 System is likely dry anyway. Will have a buddy do an evac just in case there is anything left and will try the mineral spirits test. Couldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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