towing vehicle

[jvsb]

I know there is another forum for this but it seems to basically be a forum for arranging transportation. I would like anybody's thoughts on the best kind of vehicle for towing a 6000+ lbs car and appropriate trailer. I've gotten a lot of info, some of which is contradictory. Diesel vs. gasoline. Is a truck necessary or will a large SUV (most likely gasoline) do the trick? Closed vs. open trailer. 4WD vs. 2WD. I will only be towing to tours and shows so I won't be putting huge numbers of miles on the vehicle. It won't be used for much else except for a few odds and ends around the house. I will not be taking it off road but could run into some occasional snow. Also will occasionally do some mountain driving but certainly no off road driving. I would like to keep the cost reasonable so am looking at 1998-2005 or so vehicles. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

jvsb

[Ozstatman]

Not a direct answer but, on pages 2 & 3 of this thread on the Packardinfo.com Site there is some discussion on this subject.

Packard Motor Car Information - 1st Annual PackardInfo.com River Fun Run - Laughlin, NV [Packard Forums - Shows and Events]

[55PackardGuy]

Just an opinion, but if you're towing a Packard, what better tow vehicle than a Packard??

Below is a shot of the late, great Jack Harlin's '55 Packard Panama race car (#50) which he towed behind... a '55 Packard 400! (click on the thumbnail to enlarge)

The Packard V8s and Straight 8's certainly had enough torque to pull heavy loads, with up to 355 ft lbs on the '56 10:1 compression 374's. The question was, how long an Ultramatic transmission could hold up?

For towing purposes and all-around usefulness, I find my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD with 348 ci Hemi V8 a wonderful vehicle. Commuting on urban freeways it gets about 18 mpg (over 20 straight freeway). In towing mode (which adjusts shifting points and, I believe, keeps it out of torque converter lockup and also probably uses only the 8 cylinder firing mode--instead of going into 4-banger cruising mode) it gets about 15 mpg. In general, diesel is not only more of a hassle to find and stinkier, it's often MORE expensive than gasoline.

Anybody have a diesel out there that can make 15 mpg while towing 2000 lbs?

55 Panama

I ran this in some NASCAR races, minus the Ford floater rear end. Installed front coil springs from Henny ambulance, double shocked R.F., plated stock wheels & cut out rear 1/4s for tire changes. We then set it up for local dirt tracking, hence the floater rear that was allowed. Towed it with a 55 400 HT. I metal flaked the red & blue. Class huh? My partner & I had a body shop so was no big deal.

(Jack Harlin)

Edited November 27, 2011 by 55PackardGuy (see edit history)

[Dave Mitchell]

My opinion is that if you are towing a 6000# car, you need to think of safety as well as convenience, and a good package is a full size 3/4 ton pick up or large SUV with a towing package with either a big diesel or big gas V8 with a lot of torque. The next step up is a 1 ton truck such as a pick up with duals. I have towed a 24 foot enclosed trailer with 5 different Chevy Suburbans and now use a 2001 with the 8.1 liter gas V8. I don't think this engine is available now as it was dropped a few years ago, and although it isn't easy on gas, it is great for towing. I don't think that 4wd will help with towing unless you are going to hit a lot of snow, which probably isn't a great idea anyway. The 4wd adds some maintenance and doesn't help fuel economy, so unless you need it when you aren't towing, I wouldn't look for it. You need good brakes, heavy duty roll bars and stiff suspension and plenty of horsepower and torque and the factory tow pack.

[Restorer32]

Just an opinion, but if you're towing a Packard, what better tow vehicle than a Packard??

Below is a shot of the late, great Jack Harlin's '55 Packard Panama race car (#50) which he towed behind... a '55 Packard 400! (click on the thumbnail to enlarge)

The Packard V8s and Straight 8's certainly had enough torque to pull heavy loads, with up to 355 ft lbs on the '56 10:1 compression 374's. The question was, how long an Ultramatic transmission could hold up?

For towing purposes and all-around usefulness, I find my 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4WD with 348 ci Hemi V8 a wonderful vehicle. Commuting on urban freeways it gets about 18 mpg (over 20 straight freeway). In towing mode (which adjusts shifting points and, I believe, keeps it out of torque converter lockup and also probably uses only the 8 cylinder firing mode--instead of going into 4-banger cruising mode) it gets about 15 mpg. In general, diesel is not only more of a hassle to find and stinkier, it's often MORE expensive than gasoline.

Anybody have a diesel out there that can make 15 mpg while towing 2000 lbs?

We regularly average 15 mpg towing a 24ft trailer with a 6000# car aboard using either of our Dodge Ram Turbo Diesels, plus we have enough weight to stop safely.

[trimacar]

I agree with Dave, the 1996-2006 3/4 ton GM Suburban or Yukon with large engine is hard to beat. 1996 because first year of fuel injection, 2006 because that's the last year for the big engine in those vehicles.

I know a lot of people like the diesels, I've just always liked gas myself. With an enclosed 24 foot trailer and a heavy classic, I get about 7 to 9 miles to the gallon, but that's life.....

[Guest John_Lawrence]

Isn't there a general rule of thumb about tow vehicles that says the tow vehicle should weigh as much as the combined weight of what it is towing?

(o[]o)

[55PackardGuy]

We regularly average 15 mpg towing a 24ft trailer with a 6000# car aboard using either of our Dodge Ram Turbo Diesels, plus we have enough weight to stop safely.

Just curious, how do you do on mpg when you're not towing? How much inconvenience is it to burn diesel (finding it handling it, etc.)? How much more does it usually cost per gallon? Do the trucks start in cold weather? Have you ever had to rebuild a turbo? What's the difference in your experience, if any, between maintenance costs of these vehicles and gasoline powered trucks?

[trimacar]

John, if there's a rule about the tow vehicle weighing as much as what it tows, then that rule is broken daily.

A Suburban is what, 6000 pounds? And, it's rated at 10000 to 12000 towing capacity.

As far as stopping, trailer brakes are mandatory, not optional, to be safe....

[Dave Mitchell]

I agree good trailer brakes with heavy duty axles are a must, as well as a weight distributing hitch and sway bar.

I had a diesel truck and I don't think I would buy one again - the fuel costs more and the gain in mileage wasn't enough to offset it, along with the difficulty of finding fuel. The new generation diesels have lots of power, but the other thing I don't like is the noise.

The 8.1 gas motor won't ever get great mileage when mated to the towing axle ratio. If I were to be really careful on a road trip I might get 15 mpg.

[Restorer32]

Just curious, how do you do on mpg when you're not towing? How much inconvenience is it to burn diesel (finding it handling it, etc.)? How much more does it usually cost per gallon? Do the trucks start in cold weather? Have you ever had to rebuild a turbo? What's the difference in your experience, if any, between maintenance costs of these vehicles and gasoline powered trucks?

Not towing I average about 17mpg around town, 18 on the hiway. I retired my '99 Ram Turbo Diesel at 300 K miles only because I had knee surgery and could no longer drive stick. Basically trouble free. A local trucking co has 5 of them and regularly runs them 500K miles without opening the engines. Diesel usually runs about 50 cents more than regular per gallon. My 2004 automatic is much quieter than the '99. Never had a problem starting, even on the occasional 0 degree morning here in PA. Yes, when maintenance is needed it is generally more expensive but the reliability more than makes up for the added cost in my opinion. A Ram turbo diesel weighs in excess of 7000K. You hardly know the trailer is back there.

[55PackardGuy]

Thanks for the info, Restorer32.

The final thing that would hold me back from a diesel tow vehicle is that generally the diesels are only available in full-sized pickups. They won't fit in my puny garage or into most urban parking spots. The Grand Cherokee is shorter, narrower, more maneuverable, and has the bonus of a lot of interior space for those of us who occasionally "camp" in our cars.

For someone like me who doesn't have the scratch or room for an extra vehicle, and needs an everyday driver for around town and urban freeways combined with a tow vehicle, the Hemi Cherokee is hard to beat. At around 5000 pounds, it takes quite a crosswind to notice something being towed behind. If you're watching the tach or the MPG gauge, though... then you know! The 4WD is full-time, and it comes in very handy on ice and snow, whether I'm towing or not-- no effect on MPG.

Interesting that mileage on your vehicles is fairly similar, and that cold starts as low as 0 degrees are not a problem with the newer diesels. (It would need to be good to well below zero around here, though.)

[Restorer32]

The '99 had a plug in fuel heater that I would use if temps were below 10 or so. The 2004 has no heater and starts with no problems. Of course they have 2 big expensive batteries to replace every few years. I towed for years with a Ford F 150 then several years with a Grand Cherokee. A lot depends on experience and self confidence when towing but generally the more weight in the tow vehicle the better.

[Highlander160]

Towing with a Grand Cherokee is a recipe for disaster. Packard +trailer=10,000lbs minimum. I have a GC and wouldn't dream of towing anything more than a couple sleds or a utility trailer. I have the V8 and what looks to be very heavy suspension, but no thanks. The wheelbase could get you into trouble very fast. It's designed for light duty work and occaisional off road use. Trying to drag 24' of 4000+lbs of trailer loaded with 6000lbs of Packard in any traffic is irresponsible. Wait until that rude kid in his import dives in front of you real fast then slams his brakes to make a turn. What's that short wheelbase going to do for you then? Somthing falls off of a truck or car in front of you. Some granny doesn't see you and you have to panic stop.

I tow with a 32' 5th wheel on a diesel GMC dually and I'll never go back. I have towed with a Ford F250HD, standard cab and gas. When heavy trucks pass they blow regular pickups around with enclosed rigs in tow, even with the sway bars. Still, the big brakes were handy a couple times and overall it handles the job. I would occaisionally drag my race car to the strip with a full size Bronco but it was a 16' open trailer and a relatively short trip. If you've ever been in a swaying situation with any trailer you'll remember it for life, and you'll be glad you used a heavy enough truck to save yourself. I was. It got way out of shape on the freeway from being pushed out of my lane and going over a small bridge in a curve at 55MPH. I saw the full side view of the trailer and pickup on it and it took over 1/4 mile to drive out of it. That was an open trailer on the F250. Anything less would have spelled disaster. I think my brother-in-law's hand print is still in the A pillar trim. Plan for the worst case scenario and equip accordingly. Not only is you prized possesion at risk, so are your fellow motorists.

[Guest Foggy norm]

As a professional driver for thirty year's, it's all common sense. Don't be an Ant pulling an Elephant, worse, Don't be an Ant stopping an Elephant.

[55PackardGuy]

Towing with a Grand Cherokee is a recipe for disaster. Packard +trailer=10,000lbs minimum. I have a GC and wouldn't dream of towing anything more than a couple sleds or a utility trailer. I have the V8 and what looks to be very heavy suspension, but no thanks. The wheelbase could get you into trouble very fast. It's designed for light duty work and occaisional off road use.

The shorter wheelbase is more than offset by the quadratrac and stability control. You're as likely to get "into trouble very fast" with an ordinary "towing" pickup--don't care how many blocks long it is.

Occasional offroad use? HA. That thing'll go anywhere. The Trail Rated suspension probably helps, but the Cherokee is made to go off road. Crazy wild mudding, maybe not, but over hill, over dale, you bet.

Trying to drag 24' of 4000+lbs of trailer loaded with 6000lbs of Packard in any traffic is irresponsible. Wait until that rude kid in his import dives in front of you real fast then slams his brakes to make a turn. What's that short wheelbase going to do for you then? Somthing falls off of a truck or car in front of you. Some granny doesn't see you and you have to panic stop.

Back off for a minute, won't you? That picture was taken of Jack Harlin's rig when he was hauling around his '55 Panama stock car... when it was being raced in NASCAR! You don't suppose that might have been happening, oh, sometime around 1955? And Harlin was more than likely a better driver than all of us put together-- so have some respect and read the details next time.

Speaking of details, a '55 Packard doesn't weigh 6000 pounds. Try about a ton less.

When heavy trucks pass they blow regular pickups around with enclosed rigs in tow, even with the sway bars.

It's not the pickup getting blown around, it's the trailer. And that rarely happens when heavy trucks pass you. It's when you meet them on a two-lane when you need to worry.

I would occaisionally drag my race car to the strip with a full size Bronco but it was a 16' open trailer and a relatively short trip.

The full size Bronco was nowhere near the vehicle that a last-gen Cherokee is. How irresponsible of you!

If you've ever been in a swaying situation with any trailer you'll remember it for life, and you'll be glad you used a heavy enough truck to save yourself. I was. It got way out of shape on the freeway from being pushed out of my lane and going over a small bridge in a curve at 55MPH. I saw the full side view of the trailer and pickup on it and it took over 1/4 mile to drive out of it. That was an open trailer on the F250. Anything less would have spelled disaster. I think my brother-in-law's hand print is still in the A pillar trim. Plan for the worst case scenario and equip accordingly. Not only is you prized possesion at risk, so are your fellow motorists.

Sounds like a good dose of driver error. Were you trying to pass on the curve when you got "pushed" out of your lane? What speed was the curve rated for? Just wondering.

Finally, just because you have every dollar in the world to spend on a towing rig, that doesn't mean everyone else does, including the person who started this thread and isn't looking for "who's got the the most expensive truck?" --even if you've won the mas macho contest so far.

[Highlander160]

The shorter wheelbase is more than offset by the quadratrac and stability control. You're as likely to get "into trouble very fast" with an ordinary "towing" pickup--don't care how many blocks long it is.

Occasional offroad use? HA. That thing'll go anywhere. The Trail Rated suspension probably helps, but the Cherokee is made to go off road. Crazy wild mudding, maybe not, but over hill, over dale, you bet.

Back off for a minute, won't you? That picture was taken of Jack Harlin's rig when he was hauling around his '55 Panama stock car... when it was being raced in NASCAR! You don't suppose that might have been happening, oh, sometime around 1955? And Harlin was more than likely a better driver than all of us put together-- so have some respect and read the details next time.

Speaking of details, a '55 Packard doesn't weigh 6000 pounds. Try about a ton less.

It's not the pickup getting blown around, it's the trailer. And that rarely happens when heavy trucks pass you. It's when you meet them on a two-lane when you need to worry.

The full size Bronco was nowhere near the vehicle that a last-gen Cherokee is. How irresponsible of you!

Sounds like a good dose of driver error. Were you trying to pass on the curve when you got "pushed" out of your lane? What speed was the curve rated for? Just wondering.

Finally, just because you have every dollar in the world to spend on a towing rig, that doesn't mean everyone else does, including the person who started this thread and isn't looking for "who's got the the most expensive truck?" --even if you've won the mas macho contest so far.

I hope you feel better for that. I've dragged Packards all over the lower 48. I've been passed by big rigs dozens of times on the freeways. They push a lot of air and you know it. And if 12 miles of towing a light race car on an open trailer to a local track makes me irresponsible, hey, I can live with that. I can also say that even with the idea that it was always a bright sunny and dry day, I didn't much care for doing it, but I did what I had to. WOuld I use to drag a 34 Packard 12 to California? Would I drag a 55 Packard anything in an enclosed trailer behind a Grand Cherokee? No and No. I have one. I know full well what their capable of, but towing 10k over the freeways isn't on my list. You're more than welcome to assess from where you are, what happened in my sway situation. Unless you were there it's less than accurate to assume anything. I'm glad I was driving what I was at the time and that I had the skill to survive it. If that makes it my error, I can live with that too.

Anyone who takes hauling heavy cars in enclosed trailers lightly probably shouldn't do it. If you took exception to my statements, I'm fine with it...especially now. The question was what to tow a 6000lb car with. My answer will always be the same, something big enough to handle it. It doesn't have to be my rig, it shouldn't be a short WB SUV, and it should have the ability to stop the rig in the event of trailer brake failure. A person can get a lot of towing ability out of a 17-18ft HD pickup. And if having a used truck and trailer makes me "the one with the most expensive truck", well that's one for the record books.

To the OP, I'm sure you can find someone to let you drive their tow rig and get a feel for what you might wish to do. If you were close to my part of the country, you'd certainly be welcomed to try it, and with a big fat Packard in it too.

[Guest 58packardwagon]

I used a number of 1/2 vehicles for towing and really never knew the difference until I bought a 2004 3/4 ton Suburban 8.1 L (454ci). Huge difference. I will never use a half ton again.

[jvsb]

Thanks for your opinions. I am looking at a Ford Excursion (2001)with a 7.3 l diesel. The 7.3 has a good history. It's a big "car" but should tow well.