1952 Special Deluxe Project

[Guest shadetree77]

4 bufords, thanks for the kind words. I didn't want to remove mine but it was unavoidable. I couldn't see a way to paint around the manifolds without making a mess. The gasket between the manifold and the valve body is crumbling too. It just HAD to come off. I've been losing sleep over it let me tell you. I have nightmares about cracking it in half!

Rob, it was a beauty. That was the first one I've ever seen in person. After seeing the real thing I do have an appreciation for the styling. Beautiful styling curves. I've never been much for small European cars though. I like cruising down the road in a big, long Buick....with that Dynaflow drive.

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Dorsey, is there a "DISLIKE" button on here for your post?? Jager makes me turn green. I barely got those shots down. I couldn't be rude and refuse a drink from the host though could I? Even if it did make me throw up in my mouth a little bit. I think I hid it pretty good.

Edited April 24, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Guest shadetree77]

I decided to go ahead and soak some of my rusty parts in vinegar. To be honest, I wasn't expecting much. My Dad was even more pessimistic about it than I was. I am pleased to report that both of us were wrong! I was going to wait until the parts were completely done to post about this but I got such great results today I couldn't wait to share them.

I soaked these parts in regular white distilled vinegar. It can be bought at Wal-Mart for $2.38 a gallon. I placed them in plastic containers, filled with vinegar, saran wrapped the top to cut down on evaporation, and left them for two days. These parts were RUSTY. Really, really rusty. Look what the vinegar was able to accomplish in just two days! It is recommended that every few days you remove the parts and give them a light wire brushing to expose the next layer of rust. When you take the parts out, it doesn't appear to have done much. But as soon as you touch that rust(with a brush or even just your fingers)it rubs away easily to reveal clean metal.

I don't know about you but I'd rather spend $2.38 a gallon compared to buying Evaporust or similar for $20-$25 a gallon! And the vinegar is safe for you and you can just pour it down the drain. Or you can do what I'm going to do and filter it back into the bottle and use it again. Vinegar will keep it's PH for a while allowing you to re-use a few times. This is perfect for the budget restorer that doesn't have access to a sandblaster. I'd rather do this anyway and not have to worry about blasting media in every nook and cranny.

Look closely at the pictures. My manifold and spark plug cover didn't fit entirely into the container so you can CLEARLY see a before and after line on them. Geeze...this sounds like an infomercial. Send $19.95 now! If you act fast I'll double your order AND include an amazing SHAM-WOW for clean up!! Lol.

It should be noted also that after you finish soaking the parts in vinegar, you must rinse them thoroughly in water and then place them in a bath of baking soda and water for a few days to neutralize the acid. I'll keep this updated every two days with my results.

Edited April 25, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

WAY ta GO, Robert!!

Ben

[buick5563]

Humph. I don't even know what to say....

Count me as another "pre-experiment sceptic".

That sounds like a really good solution. Looks good too.

Since I am now on board with your experiment, let me suggest buying one of those long "underbed" plastic storage lockers with a lid (meant for sweaters) from a big box store. That way, you could immerse the entire manifold in the vinegar. Sure, you might need to spend a couple more bucks for another gallon or two but it'd be just one pass in the vat.

Another good low-buck tip.

[retirednow]

Great tip Robert! I might try it today on some small parts

[Buicknutty]

Neat, I tried Evaporust, and was less than thrilled with the results, plus it gets quite expensive if you need a lot of it. Here at a big retailer that product is $10. per litre, which is about a US quart, or about $40 a gallon.

I've never tried vinegar, but I have a few small rusty parts I'll give a try with it.

Keith

[Guest Rob McDonald]

blasting media in every nook and cranny

'Specially because some of those places can be rather personal.

It'll be interesting to hear what effect this soaking has on the manifold's heat riser valve. Should get it flappin' like a dog's tail, if rust in the pivot is the usual problem. Funny, when I was starting to clean my engine for repaint - a process now stalled by life's surprises - I asked several shops about an acid that would attack surface rust. Somehow I remembered muriatic acid being the hot stuff. However, they all steered me toward solvents and degreasers, which isn't what I was looking for.

Forehead smacking moment: of course acetic acid - good old vinegar - is exactly what's needed. When considering cost, disposability, and the amble availability of one's own time for multiple applications, why bother hunting for anything more aggressive?

Just don't reuse it on your french fries, even after a good filtering.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Rob McDonald (see edit history)

[Buicknutty]

In the photo biz, this is what we call "Stop Bath".

Keith

[Guest shadetree77]

Thanks guys. It really has worked way better than I thought it would. I'm excited to see what a difference two more days makes. During my research into using vinegar on car parts I ran across a thread somewhere out there where the author was talking about an old fellow that he knew that had run a local garage for most of his life. He said the old guy kept several large drums full of vinegar in the back specifically to soak large parts in. I'm beginning to see why. Cheap and effective. Can't beat that.

Mike, I did plan on putting the manifold in a long plastic container that I have. It's actually made for storing holiday wrapping paper. The only thing that stopped me from using that was cost. I was on a shoestring budget for this little venture and thus the quantity of vinegar that I could buy was limited. That's why she ended up sticking out of a shorter container. Oh well, it'll take a few more days to work but that saved me some money.

Keith, I bought a gallon of Evaporust but I never got around to using it. The cheapest I could find it was $22. So in large amounts, the vinegar is much cheaper!

Rob, I used muriatic acid to clean out my gas tank. It worked well but I've since read that using it on cast iron is not so good. There are some folks that are of the opinion that some of the acid remains in the pores of the iron and causes pitting and paint peeling. Don't know how accurate that is but why use that nasty stuff anyway when vinegar works just as well? I'm hoping that the vinegar will free up everything on the manifold including the exhaust valve. My thinking is that it will dissolve some of the rust down in the threads of the bolts allowing for easier removal. I'll probably still have to use heat and penetrating oil but maybe I won't be fighting 60 years of rust too. As far as the french fries, if I put vinegar on my fries around here I think someone would ask me if I was feeling ok. Lol.This is America. Pass the ketchup good buddy. Just kidding, but I have always wanted to try that Poutine stuff. Mmmmmm...cheese curds and brown gravy.

Edited April 26, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Right, vinegar on French fries would be an English relic, wouldn't it? Notice I didn't call them "chips". Vinegar on Frito Lays would be disgusting.

[Guest shadetree77]

The name of the game this weekend was "paint prep". It rained off and on all weekend which slowed progress quite a bit. My Dad and I got both fenders prepped for painting the insides black. My original fender was easy. The replacement fender was a major P.I.T.A!:mad: It had a thick layer of undercoating on the entire thing. I've never dealt with this tar-like crap. My car doesn't have that stuff on it. I now have major respect for anyone restoring a car that had to lay on their back and scrape that junk off the entire underside. I believe I'd pay someone to do that before I ever took that on again. We VERY CAREFULLY used a propane torch and scrapers to remove it. We only did very small areas at a time, switching to opposite ends of the fender each time to let the panels cool. We were also careful only to heat it until it just started to come off. It came off slowly but surely. What a job. I have to say though. That stuff really did work. This fender is 60 years old and underneath that tarry junk the fender looks brand new.

I spent the rest of the weekend prepping the underside of the hood and then degreasing everything. I'm hoping to sling some more black paint sometime in the next two days. I also took my parts out of the vinegar. I'd say 95% of the rust is GONE. It would have worked better if I would have been able to completely submerge the manifold. I placed all of the parts in a baking soda and water bath to neutralize the acid. I'll let them soak for at least 24 hours before removing them and coating them with Marvel Mystery oil so they won't flash rust. I'm really hoping that some penetrating oil and heat will bring those bolts off with no problem now. Guess we'll see.

[Guest Peter Bird]

This car is coming together very nicely. Vinegar is potent stuff. I soaked some old bolts in a vinegar solution once, forgot about them for a week and when I came back they were a molten mass. I guess its critical to wash that stuff off once its done its job. Tonight my wife and myself moved our old 55 up the driveway and back again for the first time. Was a huge thrill!

[Guest Rob McDonald]

WHO KNEW that the nose badge on a '52 Buick is translucent. Betcha our boy Robert already has a plan for illuminating it from within...

[Guest shadetree77]

Lol, back when I first bought this car I had it in mind to do a very mild "resto-rod" as they say. That is, to restore it so that it looks almost stock but upgrade some things. Illuminating the front end(behind the toothy grill and that emblem)was one of the first things that crossed my mind. I always thought it would look cool with a sickly green light spilling out of there. What can I say? I'm into the darker side of things. Horror movies, novels, and such. These cars look somewhat monstrous in certain light. Alas, that line of thought was quickly tossed when i dug into this car and saw how original and complete it was. I decided that I owed this old girl more respect than that. 2 years later(wow, has it been 2 years already??)I'm still at it.

Edited May 1, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Guest shadetree77]

At the expense of a good day's sleep(it's "day" when you work 3rd shift)I threw some black paint around today. I think I got more on my hands and arms than I got on my parts. To look at me you'd think I painted these things Jackson Pollock style. I got 2 coats on the hood, 1 coat on each fender, and about a coat and a half on myself. The instructions say that you can put a second coat on as long as it's been less than 24 hours so I'll get the fenders done in the morning. By the time most of you are reading this I'll probably be elbow deep in black paint again. You can also see my freshly repainted hood latches in the pictures. I did those yesterday. They're supposed to be bare metal but I couldn't get them looking good enough without taking them apart and sandblasting so I sanded and painted them.

Between coats today I took my formerly rusty parts out of the neutralizing baking soda and water bath. They look really good. A few spots of surface rust here and there. Easily taken care of once I get the manifolds separated. I rinsed the parts, dried them with air, and sprayed them down with Marvel Mystery oil to keep them from flash rusting until I can paint them. I'm going to let the manifold bolts soak in Marvel and PB Blaster for a few days before I try to remove them.

[avgwarhawk]

Your wife is looking for the hallway carpet runners. Have you seen them? You sure know how to get secondary uses out of things! The paint looks great.

[retirednow]

Looks great Robert!

[buick5563]

Jackson Pollack:

She-Wolf (Not a bad name for a 52 Buick)

[Guest shadetree77]

A little more progress this weekend. My Dad and I worked on getting the intake/exhaust manifold apart. We got all the studs, bolts, and nuts removed with the help of penetrating oil and heat....except for one. We broke a stud off. The end that broke off is through a hole that is not threaded. It's just completely solid with rust. I'm going to soak it in rust remover and then try to blast the rust out from around the stud with high pressure water. It worked for one of the other studs. When we got the valve body loose we noticed a nasty crack running down the entire length of the side. I posted about that here: http://forums.aaca.org/f162/advice-needed-cracked-manifold-part-350548.html#post1165893. Head on over there if you want to read about that.

Had a little mishap while we were in the garage working on the manifolds. I had taken my recently painted fenders out of the shop and wedged them against the porch support poles. I made sure they wouldn't move. I shook the crap out of them to make sure. Well, I guess I didn't shake hard enough. A strong gust of wind kicked up and we heard an extremely loud BOOM. One of the fenders fell over scraping the side and completely mashing one of my headlight visors. I actually think that visor saved my headlight bucket from major damage. Oh well, it was just an aftermarket part. I can buy another set later.

I also took apart my Dynaflow stator assembly(riveting video footage below). You may recall my post about one of them not rotating. I discovered the cause. When I took the assembly apart, two of the little rollers in the secondary stator were stuck. They were wedged in there good. The springs and cups moved freely but two of the rollers had somehow become frozen in place. I believe this might be due to a crusty black substance that seems to be all over the rollers, cups, and springs. I'm assuming it's 60 year old transmission fluid. So I got some brake parts cleaner and sprayed it out hoping it would release the rollers. I did manage to get a whole lot of crud out of there(see picture)but those two rollers still wouldn't move.

So I soaked the secondary stator in Marvel Mystery oil overnight and tried to move them again today. I put a long, thin, flat tipped screwdriver gently against the side of the rollers and pried. This time they popped loose and I was able to rotate the race! Sounded like peanut brittle being broken apart when those rollers popped. Looks like the Marvel did its job. I'm going to get more brake parts cleaner and spray both stators out thoroughly, then spray them down in Marvel. I got the race, springs, cups, and rollers out of the secondary stator and everything looks fine. Just needs some cleaning. I should be able to re-assemble it and it should work just fine. That's quite a relief. Maybe I'll get this old Dynaflow back under the car soon after all.

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[avgwarhawk]

Here is the question, how was performance hindered by the stuck rollers in the stator?

[retirednow]

Great videos Robert! Beyond my level of what I'm willing to tackle, but very educational nonetheless!

[Guest shadetree77]

Here is the question, how was performance hindered by the stuck rollers in the stator?

Chris, that is a good question indeed. I have been wading through the Dynaflow section in the service manual. The part that walks you through every single operation of the converter/pump assembly. It is confusing to say the least but if I'm understanding it correctly, the secondary stator(the one that was stuck)in conjunction with the primary stator, plays a major role in directing the fluid to the proper place at the proper time depending upon engine needs. They work together to change the direction of the spinning fluid. I don't understand how my car was even able to pull out at all! It was extremely sluggish but having no experience with Dynaflows, I thought that was normal. The failing of that secondary stator was resulting in a MAJOR loss of power. I just never knew it. This thing is gonna' drive like a completely different car when I get it back together.

That brings me to my update. Today I cleaned up all of the little bits and pieces with carb cleaner and a brass brush. I also cleaned up both stators. I oiled everything down with Marvel and followed along with the service manual to put everything back together. Those tiny pieces were incredibly hard to hold onto but other than that, everything went back together just fine. The stator assembly is now awaiting re-installation. Just in time too. My wife was starting to give me a hard time about all the "stinky car parts" on her kitchen table. Lol, you read that right. She let me use her table. What can I say? I have a wife that indulges my "car nut" sickness. I had fun with this. I've always loved taking things apart and putting them back together. Guess that's part of the reason I love working on old cars.

Edited May 8, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[avgwarhawk]

Hahaha....I was going to mention the table you are working on looks to have your wife's tablecloth and I was going to suggest you return it. Should be interesting to see how the transmissions performs after the repair, clean up and fresh fluids.

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Man, those stators are beautiful! No wonder Cadillac was inspired to create turbine wheels for their wonderful Eldorados. FACT: Cadillac was forced to use Dynaflows after the big Hydramatic plant fire in 1953. NEW URBAN MYTH: In the course of developing this emergency installation, they took one of their new transmissions apart and discovered these gorgeous things inside. So, they made wheels to look like them. Remember, you heard it here first.

[Guest shadetree77]

Pictures(and...uhhh....videos:p)are worth 1000 words.

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[avgwarhawk]

Good feeling seeing work and repairs performed are successful.

[TexasJohn55]

Shadetree, Boy have I been waiting for this moment in time! Could you please take some measurements for me? I had this info at one time for my 55 when I installed the trans on it. Measure from bell housing face to the converter face at top and bottom, with converter pushed in versus pulled out. THERE IS A SPEC FOR THIS. Measure from block face to flexplate face to determine protrusion. You would also be wise to check the flexplate runout also. I have read alot of horror stories about unexplained front pump failures on dynaflows, especially after routine repairs or installations. Failure usually occurs quickly, after a few miles or minutes run time. I am the victim of one, bought the car with trans failed after recent install, no more history available as I bought from a flipper. I will post some interesting reading in the form of 3 pdfs shortly. TexasJohn

[Guest shadetree77]

Hmmm...never heard of that problem John. I look forward to seeing those PDF's. It might be a few days before I can get those measurements. My Wife is graduating from college tomorrow and my weekend is pretty much booked. And forgive my ignorance here as this is the first transmission I've ever worked on, but how exactly would one go about checking the flexplate runout?

Today was an extremely busy day. I spent the first half a day doing work around the house and in the yard in preparation for expected house guests this weekend. Let's just say my "honey do" list was HUGE. It was late when I got done with everything and I SHOULD have showered and gone to sleep as I had to work tonight....but. That old Dynaflow was calling my name. I couldn't resist dragging it out to work on it for a little bit. I got my Dad to help me flip it right side up and I took all of the masking tape off of it. I cleaned up the universal and sprayed it down with Marvel so it wouldn't rust. I touched up the paint and even took a little artistic license with some black paint(see pictures). I put the trans. cooler back on. I also noticed that I somehow missed painting one of the cooler lines....how did that happen?? Anyway, I took a few pictures. This big old hunk of iron is ready to go back in!

Edited May 10, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Beautiful, Robert! Almost too much so. Seems a sin:) to hide it.

Ben

[TexasJohn55]

working on dynaflow 3.pdf Finally! This is painful on dial-up connection. Here is the promised reading on dynaflows. I won't know if it loaded properly until it is posted. THE ARTICLES ARE LONG SO YOU MAY WANT TO DOWNLOAD. DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS FROM THE ARTICLES. TexasJohn

working on dynaflow 1.pdf

working on dynaflow 2.pdf

[Guest shadetree77]

Thanks for the articles John. That is interesting. There were also some little tips on putting the trans. back in so I'm glad you posted them for me. In the articles, the author specifically mentions that this information pertains to the twin-turbine type of Dynaflow that began production in 1953. Do you know if this would also pertain to '52 and prior? I haven't had a chance to get those measurements yet. They're on the top of my "to do" list.

[TexasJohn55]

Shadetree, no I do not know all the differences but the general idea is universal to torque converter automatics. My '55 twin turbine is captured by a capscrew, converter won't come off without disassembly. I know for a FACT that you can build the converter on the reaction flange and input shaft and install cover WITHOUT the converter indexed and seated in the oil pump. Then you can spin it and it wil drop in. I have assembled mine both ways trying to figure out how it failed the front pump and was driven deep enough to damage end of reaction shaft as well. I know from experience that if you don't index and engage the pump on TH 400 , it will fail the pump. I suppose ANY auto trans would do the same if converter has to index in the pump. The key is to have sufficient clearance when trans is bolted up to allow the converter to spin free of the flexplate and have appx .100" travel toward the trans seated position. ( You would have to pull the converter up to the flexplate to bolt it up) THERE ARE SPECS FOR EACH TRANS but I cannot find mine for the dynaflows. That is why I suggested you measure your setup so you don't destroy yours on startup. TexasJohn

[Guest shadetree77]

John, got it. I'll be sure to take some measurements either way. Thanks very much for the information. Hopefully mine will be within spec.

Quick update:

Today, we had planned on getting the car back in position and raised WAAAAY up again to get ready for the re-installation of the Dynaflow. But just like always, things didn't go as planned. We got the car half way around the driveway and heard a loud POP. A few more feet of pushing and the car wouldn't go anywhere. A quick look around and we saw that the back tires were jammed against the front of the wheel wells. The wires that we had holding our torque tube in place had popped! So we had to drag our jack, safety stands, and a large piece of plywood out there(to put the jack on so it wouldn't sink). We jacked it up by the rear end and got two ratchet straps. We looped them around the arms of the axle and hooked them to the frame under the rear bumper. Ratcheting the straps tight pulled the car forward and straightened out the rear end. We also re-wired the torque tube to the frame. We were then able to finish pushing it over to the right spot. By the time all of this was done it was getting dark so we didn't get the car raised today. I should have known. Nothing is EVER easy.

I've been working on prepping some parts for paint a little bit here and there over the last few days. I should be able to get them painted today. Pictures coming soon.

[Guest shadetree77]

Got back out to the garage today. Felt good to do a little work. Helped take my mind off my recent worries. Dad is home and doing fine. It's bugging him that he can't help me but other than that he seems to be doing great.

I got my oil filter can painted. The colors look really good. I actually painted my radiator last week but the top tank came out looking like CRAP. So I sanded it and tried again and it STILL looked like crap. No matter what I did you could see sanding scratches in the remnants of the old paint. Today I decided to quit messing around and used paint stripper to take every bit of old paint off the tank. I then sanded it with several different grits of sand paper up to 1000 grit. It should hold the paint perfectly now. I ran out of time to paint it today. After seeing that bare copper(or is it brass? not sure)tank I now see why some guys just can't bring themselves to cover it up with paint. It would look great all polished up to a mirror finish. Seems a crime to cover that up. I'm not going to do that of course, but I do have a tiny custom touch in mind for it(more on that later).

Edited May 22, 2013 by shadetree77 (see edit history)

[Guest shadetree77]

Wow. It was a beautiful day today. Hot, but not too hot. Slight breeze blowing. And what might be my favorite thing about living in Georgia, the yearly honeysuckle bloom is in full effect. Every year, the honeysuckles go NUTS around here. It's crazy. They grow enormous, like Kudzu or something. The smell they put off is intoxicating. Too bad it only lasts for a single month out of the year. Anyway, I didn't get a whole lot done today as I woke up kind of late this afternoon. I cleaned up my radiator tank and painted it black. The paint came out great this time. The tank is a little lumpy on one side but this ain't no trailer queen resto. I don't even understand how a rad. tank can GET that dented. Got to wait for the paint to cure before I attempt the custom touch I mentioned. Hopefully I don't screw up the paint attempting it.

[avgwarhawk]

The honeysuckle screams summertime! Radiator looks good. You're not painting a skull and crossbones on it are ya?

[Guest shadetree77]

Chris, that sounds like a good idea but that's not quite what I had in mind. I was thinking something a little more Von Dutch(see picture below).;)

Today was a rough day. I got a lot accomplished considering that I was working alone. My Dad was beside himself while he watched me work. He really wants to help me. I got Lucy riding high again. She's way up in the air and ready for the transmission to go back in soon. As well as a metric TON of other stuff I have to do while she's up that high. Man, that was a back BUSTING job getting the car lifted all by my lonesome.

I had planned on working on my radiator paint job some more but my Mom and Dad came back from a trip to town in their Jeep Grand Cherokee half way through the day with smoke rolling out from the side and my Dad jumped out yelling, "We're on fire!! We're on fire!". I ran over and quickly deduced that the smoke was coming from the right front brake and that we didn't need a fire extinguisher. So after that cooled down, I took the wheel off, took the brakes apart and checked everything out. The only problem I could find was that the wheel's lugs were only hand tight at best(a mechanic put the tires on). Maybe the wheel was wobbling and got incredibly hot? My first thought was the wheel bearings but on that thing they are not removable. They are made inside a large assembly and the service manual states that if there is a problem with the bearings the entire thing has to be replaced as they are not serviceable.:mad: The wheel wasn't locked up, I felt no catches while rotating it, and no funny sounds so it doesn't seem to be the bearings. I put everything back together and after test driving there didn't seem to be a problem. Kind of weird.

[Guest shadetree77]

Did some prep. work today. I was making preparations for my Wife and I to put the Dynaflow back in this weekend. You were right about her bench pressing the Dynaflow Chris! Lol. She has a three day weekend and has graciously volunteered:rolleyes: her services.

I started off by gathering up all of the nuts and bolts for the job. My Dad has offered to be on fastener cleaning duty so he can help with something. I'm glad he did. Wire brushing bolts isn't my favorite task by far. I got the rear end/torque tube out by myself today. That usually wouldn't be much to write home about but when the car is up this high it becomes quite a daunting task when by one's self. I had to think about this one.

I'll try to explain this process. Little confusing but here goes. First, I put the jack on my jack block and raised the rear end. I put cinder blocks under the wheels and lowered them onto the blocks. The cinder blocks were only holding the weight of the axle, NOT the whole car so no worries there. I took the jack off the jack block and put it on the ground. I jacked up the rear end until it was just off the blocks, then I put ramps under the wheels and lowered the wheels onto the ramps. I put a cinder block at the end of each ramp to keep the axle from rolling away from me. I then got under the car near the end of the torque tube, got a good grip on it, lifted it up and gently pushed. It didn't work exactly as planned because the axle rolled down the ramps a little quicker than expected which jerked the tube out of my hands. Don't worry though, it didn't hit the ground....I caught it.....with my CHEST.:eek: Good thing the torque tube isn't that heavy. After that I was able to guide it the rest of the way out by picking up the torque tube and pushing. As a side note, I can't BELIEVE how much of that yellow pollen is on the underside of this car! It's completely coated. How the heck does that much pollen get under there?? Anyway, by the time most of you read this my Wife and I should be heave-ho'ing a Dynaflow. Wish us luck!

TexasJohn, I took those measurements today. Well, I took one of them. The distance between the bellhousing and the converter with the converter pushed in is 3/4" on top and bottom. However, when I crawled under the car to take the other measurement I couldn't figure out which surfaces I'm supposed to measure from. The flex plate doesn't really have a flat surface anywhere unless you count the side of the teeth. That, and the block meets it at different places. I'll include some pictures. Maybe you can tell me where to make my measurement?

[avgwarhawk]

I hope all goes well. Good luck!

[TexasJohn55]

Robert, The measurements are to determine that the converter is recessed farther into the bell housing than the flexplate protrudes from the block mounting face, This will allow additional running clearance once it it bolted together. It MUST be necessary to pull converter forward to flush up with flexplate once trans is bolted in. Traditionally on other transmissions .100" is desired. It is more critical in high performance applications with sheet metal converters because they "balloon" and grow in length under load. If clearance is insufficient, the crankshaft is shoved forward against the main bearing thrust effectively wedging the coverter between the front pump gears and the crank thrust, something has to give. If you measure 3/4" converter recess, you must have less than that from trans mounting face on block to the rear face of flexplate where it mates to the converter. Make 2 standoff spacer at trans mount locations with bolts and nuts or washers of equal height so that when you lay a bar across the two frrom one side to the other you can measure down to the flexplate with calipers. Subtract the height of the bar and spacers on block. If you don't have any good flat stock, use a carpenters level but measure thickness from one end to the other to assure accuracy..Rotate engine by hand to roll each converter mount pad around to bar location for measuring. All three points should be the same within the limits of crank thrust plus maybe .010" , that would be your runout number. Runout of flexplate in usually done with a dial indicator rigid mounted to block with a roller or button tip resting on rear face of ring gear or flexplate and turning engine 360 degrees. I hope I have explained this clearly enough. TexasJohn