What chassis is this Special built on?

[alsancle]

The picture was taken in Yonkers NY in 1934 and shows Special #9 built by Gus Schumacher. Any ideas what that chassis might be? I think the car was built prior to 1932.

[Grandpa]

An observation - Exhaust pipes on both sides, with four engine connects on each side, would be a V-8 engine.

Grandpa

[Grandpa]

Here is the hub cap for possible ID. Grandpa

[Grandpa]

Here is the taillight for possibe ID. Grandpa

[nzcarnerd]

If it was built prior to 1932 the engine will be something other than a Ford V8 - also the angle of the exhausts is wrong for a Ford. If the wheels belong to the original chassis they could be mid to late 1920s Oakland. I wonder if it has had an Oakland V8 fitted (??).

[alsancle]

I believe it was built prior to 1932. Special #10 used a Ford v8 and was built in 1932. here is a blurry pic that shows the radiator of #9.

[alsancle]

I should really put something together for each of Gus's cars but he built around 15 prior to WWII including sprint cars. I would like to try to figure out what chassis is under #9. Number 8 was on a Duesenberg Model A chassis. #11, my car is on a Stutz Chassis which was ordered by a customer in 1928 but because of the stockmarket crash not completed until after #10. Here is an advertisement from the early 30s promoting his custom body building.

Edited August 8, 2011 by alsancle (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Here is the full shot I have of it on the road.

[Dave Henderson]

Interesting that the first picture shows an enclosed rear treatment. The gas tank is visible on the other pictures.

Likely built on a '20's chassis. Paige had Disteel disc wheels in that era..

[alsancle]

The first tank is a cooling tank with water. Covering the tanks was a later addition to the car. Special #10 pictured here (From the Burn-em up Barnes serial) also had exposed rear tanks. Special #11 they were covered and I think he then updated #9.

[alsancle]

Here is a close up of the tank setup. The first tank is for coolant as Gus always ran a fan less engine setup. There is a knob on the dash that can be used to regulate the flow of water from the tank to the engine.

[nzcarnerd]

Had another look at this one. I think the chassis and wheels are Studebaker. A pity there is not a shot of the engine bay. The angle of the pipes could come from the middle of the vee and over the heads of a Cadillac - maybe?

[alsancle]

What year Studebaker were you thinking? All the V8 engines I can think of from that era have ports on the inboard side of the block. It doesn't seem that the exhaust pipes would be able to make it up and over the block to the inside of the engine.

[nzcarnerd]

I can't see the details of the chassis clearly from the picture but it reminded me of the 1928 1/2 GE Dictator chassis I have. I would need to see a closeup of the rear end of the chassis. Engine I am not sure of but certainly V8 with some inventive exhaust plumbing. An earlier post mentioned Disteel wheels but they were different - with bolt on rims I think.

[vintageride]

Thoughts on possible Gus Schumacher #9 power plant.

After looking at many pre-1928 V8 engines, I have come up with two early v8s with the exhaust port configuration found on the #9 special. My hunch is that the engine does not necessarily match the chassis. So I have focused on the engine. I have also assumed that Gus built straight exhaust zoomies exiting the hood and that the engine was built stateside for automotive applications. So take all of this with a grain of salt.

The field is small for pre-1928 v8s with that exhaust port configuration after looking at many v8s from the period. Many were excluded by the mere fact of exhaust ports located inboard of the cylinder banks (i.e. Cole, Cadillac, Daniels etc.). Several pre-1928 v8s did have the exhaust ports located outboard (i.e. Chevrolet, Wills-Saint Clair, Willys-Knight, and Stearns-Knight). From that list two-remain that match the #9 special’s exhaust port configuration: Chevrolet and Stearns-Knight. The Stearns-Knight design seems development wise head and shoulders above the 1st Generation Chevrolet v8. These to me were surprising conclusion to the analysis.

Was the Schumacher car powered with a Sleeve-valve v8? Chevrolet? Something else.

My hope is that someone can take this working theory and refute or develop the debate.

See attached Stearns-Knight photo from "Automobile Engineering" 1919, page 365.

Discussion about the Chevrolet including a nice photo here:

OT--- First Chevrolet V8

Vintageride

Edited February 5, 2012 by vintageride
typo (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Great detective work Pete. I agree with your theory that the engine & chassis may not be of the same manufacturer. Attached is a Chevy V8 picture you sent me a while back.

[alsancle]

One of the possibilities Pete mentioned above was Willis St Claire. Thanks goes out to Ed Minnie for pointing out the Willis St Clair A-68 roadster and finally figuring this out. Here is a link.

ohc V-8, a 265-cid unit putting out 67 horsepower

[jeff_a]

vintageride,

You left out the chassis and V-8 engine of the 4-barrel-carb, dual exhaust, 332 Cu. In. Peerless V-8. They had V-8s 1916-1928. There are even a couple of speedsters around.