Infamous 1990 Reatta "00 Error - Electrical Problem" issue

[retiredarnold1]

<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Got the 1990 reatta out from its winter snooze and after charging the battery the dash 99% of time only posts the 00 error - electrical problem message. I read several of the forums concerning this problem and have done the cleaning of the battery posts, positive/negative junction boxes, and looked under the dash to see if any wires have been chewed because it appears chipmunks also like being in a reatta, and didn't see any obvious issues.

I have driven the reatta about 100 miles without a speedometer or gas gauge and have observed the following:

Occassionally the dashboard does work for a few minutes:

It seems first thing in the morning the error disappears temporarily:

the air conditioner that hasn't worked for 2 years does now:

pressing the test button does light up the dashboard:

all fuses appear good.

Any suggestions or solutions on what to do next? I kind of like that the air conditioner works now but it sure is nice to know if you're running low on gas or how fast you are going after bowling league is over.

Thank you for your assistance.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Put an IPC in it.

[rrs814]

I had mine fixed a few years back (by a guy back east, that advertised here on the forum). I'll bet a few of the very experienced owners can (and will) tell you who to contact. If you don't get MORE input, I'll try to find the info. It has been a few years.

[KDirk]

Pretty much what Steve and Robert have said. This is becoming a more common failure on the 90/91 cars as the electronics in the IPC age. This is a problem I am actively working on, and have it _almost_ sorted out after many hours of troubleshooting multiple clusters.

The bad news is that this does not lend itself to a DIY type repair, unless you are an experienced electronics tech with rework and diagnostic equipment on hand. The good news is that it is repairable in probably 98% of cases. I would recommend buying a working spare (Steve above, Jim Finn and others on here generally offer used, working units) and then getting the failed one repaired to have as a backup. Do not toss the non-working one even if you don't repair it now. These will be needed down the road for cores or even just spare parts. If you don't want to keep it, please PM me as I may be interested in the non-working one.

Another thing, rest assured - an original non-rebuilt IPC will fail sooner or later due to component level failures inside the cluster. 20 years of heat, cold, humidity, and vibration have taken their toll and it is rather surprising to me that this problem has not reached epidemic proportions before now. These electronics take a beating in the context of a vehicle environment, so they were made quite well considering 2 decades of use (on average) before they start to require geriatric care.

Since I am not yet setup to offer rebuilt IPC's for sale (this is still a work in progress) I will suggest that you send it out to one of the established repair facilities. If in doubt, contact your Buick dealer who can refer you to a Delco repair shop that can do the work. There are also numerous independent speedo shops around the country setup to do this work. Cost is typically around $200. some may be a bit less.

KDirk

[Jim]

The CRTs and headlight switches are the most common part to go bad in the '88-89 Reattas and the most common part to go bad in the '90-91 is the IPC and when it does it will read ERROR and 00

I have to disagree a little with Kevin's statement-----

"Another thing, rest assured - an original non-rebuilt IPC will fail sooner or later due to component level failures inside the cluster. 20 years of heat, cold, humidity, and vibration have taken their toll and it is rather surprising to me that this problem has not reached epidemic proportions before now. These electronics take a beating in the context of a vehicle environment, so they were made quite well considering 2 decades of use (on average) before they start to require geriatric care. "

Several years ago there was someone on this forum selling rebuilt IPCs for about $ 350 and I felt this was way too high so when someone would ask me about rebuilt IPCs or CRTs I had the following saved on my computer----

"The CRTs and IPCs are rebuildable but if you do either send yours in and have it rebuilt or buy a rebuilt unit, in my opinion you are still getting a used part. Unlike mechanical parts that are rebuilt with all new wearable parts electronic parts when they are rebuilt are just a used part that had one bad component replaced, tested and then sent back out. You are just as susceptible to failure in the future."

I still think this is true as a rebuilder will find the faulty part, do a series of tests to make sure the unit is working and then send it out. He has no way of knowing what other electronic part might fail as at the time of rebuild it is in operational condition.

Now that having been said, there is a rebuilder on Ebay who seems to have a good reputation and does a rebuild for about $ 150.

Look on ebay or see his web site. He is digital dash solutions in Dayville CT

http://home.comcast.net/~digital_dash_solutions/

I also have some good used units for less than the rebuild price.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Jim (see edit history)

[retiredarnold1]

Thanks Kevin for the info, I contacted Jim about used or rebuilt IPC. Good group of people these reatta owners!!!!

[reattadudes]

Jim,

I am indeed "the guy" who sells IPCs for $350.

why is EVERYTHING "too high" to you?

we sell 15-20 1990-1991 IPCs per month, every single month. we don't expect our customers to need to endure old used junk, and take every single IPC we receive, whether working or not, and send them to a Delco-authorized remanufacturer.

we don't waste time doing a Mickey Mouse "patch-job" replacing only what's wrong; that's a total waste of time on an electronic part, that as Kevin says, has endured 20+ years of use, heat, cold, humidity, dryness, and endless bumps.

our remanufacturer rips all of the guts out, and in go brand new circuit boards, cold solder joints, and anything else that could fail.

we also provide a two year unconditional warranty with our Delco remanufactured units, just like every single other electrical item we sell.

do you think GM dealers and quality repair shops are interested in buying used, unwarranted parts? no, they're not, and none of our customers are, either.

in the ten years we've been selling Reatta parts, we've never had a single one come back under warranty. what's even more telling is we've never had one come back even after the warranty expired.

I just received the invoice for the last batch of IPCs that were rebuilt.

our rebuild cost per unit?

$331.42

we sell them for $350; the same price they've been since 2001.

we are now making a whopping $18.58 per unit.

since that $350 is "too high", please suggest how much we should lose per unit to make them not "too high".

not everyone is looking for $2 parts for their $10 car.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited April 27, 2011 by reattadudes (see edit history)

[Guest Mc_Reatta]

Some other Delco Repair Houses are:

http://techni-car.com

Nationwide Speedometer and Instrument Cluster Repair

Speed-O-Tach - factory authorized car audio sales and service center

AER Technologies

AJR International, Inc

Tel: 1-630-832-0222

Toll-Free: 1-800-232-396

Specmo.com .::. instrument clusters - repair & remanufacturing - services

Not sure what all products they repair, quality or prices

but inherited a CRT that was repaired by Techni-Car.

[KDirk]

Since it seems I have created some contention on the subject, I would like to clarify here that my use of the term "rebuilt" versus simply "repaired" connotes doing more than simply replacing only those parts that are found to be faulty at the time repair is made.

Many of the independent repair shops troubleshoot failed clusters and replace only those individual components that are found bad at that point in time. This can and will lead to eventual failure of the cluster (again) either due to other age-weakened parts going bad, or the previously replaced parts going bad again due to failure induced by other aged parts that were not replaced. This approach _may_ yield many years of reliable service, and is good enough for most people. It does however carry a higher risk of repeat failure sooner than a rebuilt part would, all else being equal.

I would also point out that unless there is a secret supply I am unaware of, some items like the VFD display panels are not replaceable, as they are no longer made. Futaba manufactured and supplied these parts per GM/Delco's specs, and unless there is NOS lying around we are stuck with the parts we have in some cases. Really, the VFD panels are not a major issue unless they loose to much luminous intensity to be legible, or if a filament wire breaks inside the glass envelope, ruining the display. This is exceedingly rare on the VFD's in the Reatta cluster.

Really there should be four grades defined (by my thinking anyway):

1. Used, working. This is self explanatory.

2. Repaired - this is the minimal work done to get the IPC working again, only failed parts are replaced (perhaps a couple of transistors and passives) and the unit is tested to verify operation and returned to the customer. This is the least costly option.

3. Rebuilt - this is a step above repaired [by my definition], having all failure prone and aged parts [even those still presently working] replaced with new, and then tested to verify operation. Likely to get a longer warranty with a part in this class.

4. Remanufactured - this would be the best you could do next to a brand new IPC. personally, I would define this as as having new displays, and either completely stripped and reworked OR new circuit boards. It is unlikely the complete new parts are available to achieve this unless there is still current manufacture of such parts taking place. As well, the labor to strip every single component off the 3 internal circuit boards and replace 1 for 1 would take several days of continuous labor for even the most expedient tech, thus I doubt such a service could or would be offered due to lack of practicality and cost effectiveness.

Having said all that, a used working cluster may give a prolonged period of perfectly acceptable service, and at a lower price. For those who have cars they are unwilling to spend a premium on, either due to lack of funds or because the car is not in the condition to justify such expense, this is a perfectly acceptable option. Of course, as with anything based upon statistical averages, you are taking a blind shot at the quality of the part based on previous wear and tear. A used part could die in a day, or in a decade; you just can't know in advance. I myself have utilized used parts without reservation in some applications if a new or rebuilt equivalent is not readily available, or is prohibitive in cost.

For anyone who would like the peace of mind of knowing that they have the best possible part in terms of life expectancy and overall condition, a rebuilt part is perhaps a better, albeit more costly, option. I understand this is not an approach that everyone will find appealing, and I don't fault anyone who chooses to forgo the cost of going this route. I feel that mechanical and electrical parts critical to the operation of the car should be the best quality possible, if only for safety and reliability. Everything else (cosmetic parts and such) are at the discretion of the buyer and how much they care to spend, and I'm fine with that.

KDirk

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

Or......you can go to a Pick-N-Pull and "takes your chances"

with a used IPC. (only 30-35 bucks)

With a rebuilt IPC going for $150 minimum, I'll take my chances

and "throw a little caution to the Pick-N-Pull wind".

Kit (sorry...I just had to pipe in with my take on this)

[Jim]

Kevin,

Very well said.

I have several non working '90 IPCs and will send them to you at no charge if you want them. You are welcome to repair or rebuild or---------- and do whatever you want with them.

Jim

[DAVES89]

Well I am curious... Jim is retired and works out of his house and sells parts that are tested and in some cases repaired, and marks his items up at least as far as Mike does.

Mike however has a more sophisticated client and sells his items as rebuilt or new,out of a shop, travels the country to work on Reattas and make aprox. $20.00 per item?

How do you do that?

I am sure you are not making it back on volume...

[padgett]

Well the quick way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.

[KDirk]

I'll add one more post to this discussion. I am undertaking the rebuild of 90/91 IPCs for three reasons:

1. To give Reatta owners another option better than a simple spot repair, but at a cost not too much if any greater.

2. To try and prevent non-working clusters that might otherwise have been discarded from hitting the landfill. I know there is a ready supply of these now, so a lot of Reatta owners seem content to simply ditch an old cluster and put in a used pull because it is the least expensive fix, and I understand the reasoning behind doing so. Yet, with that being the case, I fear that many otherwise salvageable clusters that may be needed a few years from now will be lost due to lack of foresight. Creating an eventual shortage of a much needed part is not good for our hobby, even if unintentional.

3. Obviously, it will provide me some added income to feed the habit of collecting and repairing Reattas, and who can find fault with that?

As I have previously posted, I am not "in business" just yet. I am still working out additional problems in some bad clusters that need more than the basic rebuild, and I would like to build a supply of good tested units ready to ship before I start offering any for sale. I am not out to undercut anybody else's parts sales, just trying to be helpful and hopefully do it at a small profit.

KDirk

[Guest Kingsley]

Dave 89 - as of 12/1/2010, convertible tops resulted in "a whopping $16.92 profit" and now IPCs are "producing a $18.98 profit". Got to have a lot of volume to make it at that even before or after overhead!

Reattadudes is to be commended for selling at such a low margin.

[hinspect]

Carl Cowles is a fine guy to deal with. It was a toss up to get one from Jim, which I think a lot of, or get one with a warranty. Carl (Digital Dash Solutions) sent me one that did not work and paid for the return shipping. My display now works fine.

[DAVES89]

Jim,

I am indeed "the guy" who sells IPCs for $350.

why is EVERYTHING "too high" to you?

we sell 15-20 1990-1991 IPCs per month, every single month. we don't expect our customers to need to endure old used junk, and take every single IPC we receive, whether working or not, and send them to a Delco-authorized remanufacturer.

we don't waste time doing a Mickey Mouse "patch-job" replacing only what's wrong; that's a total waste of time on an electronic part, that as Kevin says, has endured 20+ years of use, heat, cold, humidity, dryness, and endless bumps.

our remanufacturer rips all of the guts out, and in go brand new circuit boards, cold solder joints, and anything else that could fail.

we also provide a two year unconditional warranty with our Delco remanufactured units, just like every single other electrical item we sell.

do you think GM dealers and quality repair shops are interested in buying used, unwarranted parts? no, they're not, and none of our customers are, either.

in the ten years we've been selling Reatta parts, we've never had a single one come back under warranty. what's even more telling is we've never had one come back even after the warranty expired.

I just received the invoice for the last batch of IPCs that were rebuilt.

our rebuild cost per unit?

$331.42

we sell them for $350; the same price they've been since 2001.

we are now making a whopping $18.58 per unit.

since that $350 is "too high", please suggest how much we should lose per unit to make them not "too high".

not everyone is looking for $2 parts for their $10 car.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

I'm glad to see you trying Mike!