Reatta Values

[Guest daytonreatta]

I sometimes wonder what these guys attempting to sell low mileage Reattas on ebay are thinking. I have been watching ebay since I bought mine a couple years ago, and it seems the max that that a low mileage Reatta convertible ever gets to is the low teens. I have never seen one actually sell for the 20k price the seller thinks his car is worth. The last link below sold on ebay for 6k but it was just re-listed with a buy it now price of 7k and this is at least the fourth time it has been listed. I love my Reatta because it was a fairly inexpensive way to get a unique autmobile that can be driven every day. I spent $3,000.00 on mine, but I can think of any number of cars that I would spend 20k on before I would think of getting one of those below. I have seen C4 ZR1 Vettes go in this range or a little more. The Reatta just doesn't have the performance or the status to sell for what these guys seem to think they can get.

Buick : Reatta - eBay (item 350449725418 end time Apr-01-11 12:41:31 PDT)

Buick : Reatta - eBay (item 250793432828 end time Mar-30-11 18:30:00 PDT)

Buick : Reatta - eBay (item 290550107727 end time Apr-03-11 17:30:44 PDT)

Buick : Reatta - eBay (item 220760280410 end time Apr-01-11 18:28:37 PDT)

[Guest steveskyhawk]

eBay buyers tend to be looking for deals. Nothing wrong with that but eBay doesn't bring in the serious buyers. Quality cars bring top dollar when properly presented in Hemmings Motor News. Serious buyers don't want to kiss a hundred frogs to find their Prince.

[KDirk]

I'll agree with Steve on this. That said, the overvaluation of items on Ebay is rampant, not just with Reattas, but almost all items. Ebay is not generally perceived as the forum for purchasing premium cars, even if some show up there. Add to that the ever declining reputation Ebay holds (the growth of scams, bottom feeders and sellers always getting nicked with ever higher fees) and I think it has already enjoyed it's peak popularity about 2-4 years ago, maybe longer.

I still use it to buy (don't do any selling) as there is no disputing the breadth of items available there, and I have gotten some very good deals. It is also the largest such forum for the sale of strange, obscure and hard to find items, and that level of exposure makes it useful to someone like me who has hobbies that revolve around hard to find items.

What I see on Ebay are a lot of sellers who are dreaming on their asking prices for all types of items, and others who are undoubtedly hoping to find a sucker who will pay the asking price. Certainly there are many reputable sellers who are realistic in their expectations. The ones we tend to notice though are the ones that keep re-listing the same item a dozen times, never hitting reserve and they still keep trying.

Of course, low mileage on a Reatta doesn't necessarily mean it is top-shelf. A car can be neglected to a point where one with 15,000 miles looks as bad as an average 60,000 mile car. Some of these cars may not be as clean as their mileage would imply, thus making them harder to sell through a forum like Hemmings. I can't figure why so many cars with low mileage end up on Ebay except for the sheer exposure they will receive. This makes a sale more likely just on the number of people who will see the listing.

KDirk

[padgett]

I have bought three cars from Craigslist, prices there are often appropriate to condition and cars that have been here all of their lives tend to be rust free. Of course like anywhere you find dreamers but often they are people just looking to move on. Also, being local, I can go look at them.

[reattadudes]

eBay is mooch central. I always tell my customers that this is a great place to sell your car if you're interested in getting less than half of it's true value.

prices on eBay are not indicative of anything; otherwise, these values would be reflected in collector car price guides, or used by insurance companies for valuation purposes. in either case, they are not.

ignoring my own advice, I actually sold 1990 Reatta coupe on eBay the week between Christmas and New Year's, 2009. it was a 24,000 coupe we purchased from an estate in California. I had a "buy it now" of $9,950, and the car didn't even make it halfway thru the listing time when it sold. I had four backup offers all the way to $13,000.

I think a big mistake many make when selling a car is very poor marketing. it blows me away to see a $20,000 car with a twenty word description, or poor (or no) photos. the text of the ad for the Reatta coupe I sold was twenty PARAGRAPHS in comparison.

if you don't live in a "photogenic" area, take the car to one. folks are looking at the car, so crop the photos to eliminate background distractions.

with that being said, the only place to properly market a nice (and I do mean nice) Reatta is in Hemmings Motor News; nowhere else. I've suggested Hemmings to many of my customers over the years, and every one has sold their car there. it might not happen overnight, but that call WILL come. I always tell my customers that when that call comes: there will be only one question the caller asks: "where do I send the money?"

I've had many doubt this happens, but in every case, it does, and that's the question that does get asked.

the one thing that Hemmings buyer does expect for top dollar is a perfect car. I always tell my customers if when you walk around the car, and the words, "but remember, it's a 1990", come out of your mouth, then you didn't do a good enough job.

many Reattas also sell privately. we've consigned numerous Reattas, and sold every one. I'm not going to waste a customer's time (as well as insult them) and tell them their pristine Reatta convertible is worth $12,000, or $15,000, like many of our resident Reatta "experts" do.

I've sold seven convertibles in the past year. most have been 1990's with miles in the 50K-75K range. the cheapest one sold for $20,000. I just sold a silver, one owner 1990 convertible with 75,000 miles yesterday to a customer in Escondido, California, for $21,000. she said it was worth every cent.

food for thought: if you think your car is worth nothing, you're exactly right. you're also right if you think a nice car is worth good money.

it's totally your call.

selling a collector car is no different than marketing a property. either you spend the money to make it perfect (and get the big bucks), or be cheap and get less than half, or not sell it at all.

would you buy a car with inoperative air conditioning? if you did, would you believe the seller that "it just needs a charge", or would you anticipate it needs a lot more, like a compressor or evaporator? would you just walk away?

a good example is a convertible top. a Haartz cloth top is roughly $900 and installation is about $350. the perceived value to a buyer for that top? $3,000-$3,500. do you suppose that prospective buyer will find too many other Reatta convertibles with new Haartz cloth tops? no, they won't.

that new top just sold your car for the full asking price.

Mike Rukavina

buickreattaparts.com

Edited April 5, 2011 by reattadudes (see edit history)

[Guest xerxes]

I throughly agree that the need for a new convertible top severly inhibits a sale. I have a 1990 Beechwood Convertible with 99K. It runs great and is overall really nice but the need for a new top has been a sticking point for many. There is a clearcoat issue on one fender but that hasn't been nearly the deal breaker that the top has. Unfortunately, I'm in a Catch-22. I'd put a new Haartz cloth top on tomorrow but I can't afford it now. I'm only selling the car due to lack of income(I sell building materials, or, at least try!).

Many years ago I learned that if you are selling a car make sure you do everything you can to make sure it looks, starts, and runs great. So far I have done two of these three.

Your point is very well taken!

[Guest daytonreatta]

I have purchased 3 cars on Ebay, all of them ended up being very good deals, and I eventually sold all of them for more than I paid. I bought my Reatta off craigslist and couldn't be happier. With the right homework, ebay can be a great place to get a good deal on collector cars, and the security from paypal transactions is also a plus. That said, I can't understand why anyone would ever pay 20k for any Reatta as they have so little in the way of classic status, performance, or pedigree. Why would anyone pay that amount when the same would get you an equally perfect C4 convertible, two perfect Miatas or BMW Z3's or any number of other autos with as much or more rarity value. I love my Reatta, and plan on keeping it around for quite a while. Reattas are fairly rare and quite attractive cars, but to pay that amount, you must have a strictly emotional connection to the car, of course emotion is one of the main factors in most classic car purchases.

[Rawja]

..... I can't understand why anyone would ever pay 20k for any Reatta as they have so little in the way of classic status, performance, or pedigree. Why would anyone pay that amount when the same would get you an equally perfect C4 convertible, two perfect Miatas or BMW Z3's or any number of other autos with as much or more rarity value. I love my Reatta, and plan on keeping it around for quite a while. Reattas are fairly rare and quite attractive cars, but to pay that amount, you must have a strictly emotional connection to the car, of course emotion is one of the main factors in most classic car purchases.

You've gone and answered your own question. There's plenty of people who can easily afford just about anything else, but want Reattas for whatever their reason is and there's also plenty of people out there for whom 20K is less than pocket change for whom "overpaying" is at the bottom of their list of priorities. Everything's relative.

There's a 4K mile '88 coupe on the buy/sell side of this forum for around $20K and if it represented less than a month's salary it'd be in my garage right now. I haven't the slightest desire for Corvettes, BMWs, Mercedes, Miatas or anything else really... I have precisely the cars that I want; It's not a question of budget really I just want what I want and that's the whole extent of it.

The reality is that for the most part everyone here (myself included) represent the low end of the market. The people who buy Reattas for 20 grand generally don't have any interest is puttering around here or getting their hands dirty; That's not a judgement, we all have our unique relationship with our obsessions.

[Guest Double M]

What's it worth? Probably the most asked question on anything collectible, if ya care... I dont care so much what my car is worth, because it is worth more than you think. My Reatta is my Daily driver and to me it is worth the paycheck I get every week. But its actual value is well, something that would be hard to figure out...

The used car dealer I bought it from tried to get $3500 for it on its website. They listed it however as an auction with a reserve of only $1150 - and that was I paid. Was it a basket case?, certainly not, but it did have some issues that seemed minor to me but probably major to most. It was in good enough condition for me to drive it home from Conneticut, a 4 hour trip with no problems.

The Blue Book says it is worth around that $3500 that the dealer wanted. Funny that is also about the amount I have spent on it so far. Many of us, however mistake the money we spend for the money it is worth and that is seriously wrong. I could spend $20,000 professionally restoring/refurbishing my car with ease I am sure, but will that make it worth $20,000?... NO. Money spent on labor does not count, which would be a major part of that price.

Dont ever expect to get what you put in, back out or expect to spend lots of money re-running your for sale ads!

[NCReatta]

I can't understand why anyone would ever pay 20k for any Reatta as they have so little in the way of classic status, performance, or pedigree.

daytonreatta, Let me ask a question from a different angle.

If you wanted to sell your car, and you had a few thousand to put into it, would you not want it to sell for upwards of $10k? While it may seem strange to you that anyone would pay that for a Reatta, the fact is, they do. Of course, the prices is dependent on the milage, condition, weather it's a coupe or a vert, color combos, and to a degree the year. But if you spent the time and money to make your car a first class car, would you not want it to fetch a first class price?

I think that the prices that is being asked for both of the red/tan '91 convertibles are fair. They both look clean, low milage, and they're '91 verts. They're simply advertising in the wrong place. Cars like that (if it's truly as nice as the pictures make it look) belongs in Hemmings.

Why do are we devaluing our cars??:confused::confused:

Edited April 5, 2011 by NCReatta (see edit history)

[Thriller]

Markets are fickle and so are buyers. There are a lot of factors. How a car is presented / marketed is very important. Stepping away from the Reatta, today I noticed a listing on Kijiji - don't recall what it was for, but a price of $7500 without a single photo. If there were a particular model I was drooling over, then it would be different, but if a seller can't be bothered to arrange to get a photo online, well I don't generally have time for them.

I found my Reatta on Kijiji. Two thousand for a high mileage '88 that has tranny issues is probably high. Then again, it was in my back yard. I wasn't looking for a Reatta...heck I may not get to enjoy it as the wife seems to think of it as hers already.

MrEarl on these forums likes to look at prices for what doesn't need to be done to a car. I think that is a wise way of looking at it.

I want to find a Buick truck from the teens. Hen's teeth come to mind, but there are two for sale right now. First take a look at this 1913. I believe this sale was in 2009 for $28k at auction (so the buyer paid closer to 30 covering the buyer's fee and such). Well, there is a 1914 in Hawaii for sale missing some parts, with some incorrect repaint...looking for around $20k...and it is in Hawaii with the associated shipping cost. There is a 1915 for sale that showed up on the Brass Buicks list. The initial message was simply looking to sell the 1915 truck...one friend got a photo and price...$30k. This is a very original, very complete truck, but if nothing else the paint is tired. From chatting with someone who knows the truck, the single photo that was provided was taken at the previous owner's place, so is of unknown vintage. I have sent the seller a couple of e-mails without a response. I guess I'll find a truck at a more reasonable price at some point when a seller actually wants to sell it.

Spring is springing and many folks are listing cars, and many are listing at prices that seem to be extreme, but if there are buyers willing to pay the price and a deal is done, who are we to say it is too much, unless we are merely lamenting that we can't afford it?

[NCReatta]

And many are listing at prices that seem to be extreme, but if there are buyers willing to pay the price and a deal is done, who are we to say it is too much, unless we are merely lamenting that we can't afford it?

My point exactly. I just didn't word it was well as you did.

[MarkV]

What people dont realize when listing their car at this time of year is the fact that it is tax time! No one has money to spend on luxuries about 1 month before and 1 month after tax day! Also, Reattas even though they are great cars are only worth so much, max 4k but even then that is to high...

[KDirk]

Wes,

You do have a point about the time of year. Of course, if people have already filed and gotten refunds, then they may be ready to buy.

FWIW, I am about to buy a second Reatta, and while I wasn't immediately ready to do a deal before the end of the month, sometimes the "right" car comes along and circumstances dictate that you just have to jump on it. So, while I had planned (nothing ever goes according to plan) to wait until later in the year to get my second, I had to make some adjustments and just go with it. The car was for sale "here and now" so to speak, and I didn't feel I would get another shot at an opportunity this good. Cars in the condition/mileage I will be getting are not terribly common at this point.

I would respectfully disagree about a Reatta being worth $4K max. I would not buy one that is $10,000+ as that is beyond what I can currently justify based on my available funds and the fact that I own 2 (soon to be 3) cars. As well, I am not a collector in the sense of someone who has true classics spit shined in a climate controlled museum quality garage. However, I can see where some people would pay $10,000+ to whatever upper limit the market will bear. Remember, it only takes one buyer who really wants that grade A Reatta to pay the price, and the deal is done and the precedent set. It may not be common, but is does happen.

I am more comfortable in the $3500-$5500 range, as that will still get a pretty nice coupe that doesn't need a load of work and will be a reliable semi-daily driver with normal maintenance and a few larger age related repairs every so often. As I can do most of my own repairs and restoration work, I am in a better position than many who have to rely on mechanics and specialists to do interior upholstery or electronic repairs. That is part of the reason I can deal with these cars and not have the contents of my wallet go up in smoke. Those who are not so skillful can quickly get killed financially on a 20+ year old car if they aren't prepared for the level of attention that may be required.

Cars, like many collectibles, are a very subjective item. I really like Reattas. Some people think I am a goof obsessing over these cars, but they are good cars and right now can be had at a decent price for what you are getting (distinctive looks, exclusivity, and a car that is relatively easy to maintain since most of it was ripped from GM's standard parts bin). I am yet to be convinced that they will be a collectible in the same vein as a 57 Chevy or 59 Cadillac, but time will tell. Even if they never achieve that status, what is important to me is that I have the car I like and get a good deal of satisfaction from keeping it on the road.

So, an individual can set the upper price limit they would consider paying, but it is not possible to establish a maximum market value, unless you can determine the highest price actually paid for a car at a given point in time. Even then, that would be subject to change based on subsequent sales that may exceed the previous high.

KDirk

[Thriller]

Wes, you make a good point and so does Kevin. Some folks will be paying taxes, and some will be getting returns. The ads around here are really starting to pop up (generally speaking for "old" cars) since most of the snow is now gone and folks start looking forward to summer.

In my world, just about any local car that runs and moves under its own steam is worth a thousand. There's something to be said for not needing to transport a car from away and not having major mechanical work required.