1960 Ride & Handling

[Guest djohn81641]

I have a 1960 Buick that has a rough ride with when going over bumps. Basically when I hit a large bump or pot hole in the road ( I try to avoid them a much as possible) I hear "bam!". I have new coil springs in the front as well as gas shocks. I have new cargo springs in the rear and air shocks set at 100 psi. I am using steel belted radials, 235/75/15. I have replaced some front end pieces, specifically the ball joints, and tire rods -(I think that is what they are called). I keep 30 psi in the tires. My questions is: It is normal for cars from 1960 to go "bam" when hiting a bump? Modern cars just bounce over the bump without any loud noise and continuing riding smoothly. If this is not normal behavior, what else can I do to get a smoother ride. I really love driving my old car, it was my father's, but bumps scare the heck out of me, while I am driving my 60.

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

djohn, my guess is the air shocks. Try with little or no air. By the way, beautiful car.

Ben

[TxBuicks]

Have you checked the ball joints? Loose ball joints could cause the noise you are hearing on bumps.

[buick5563]

First off no, it's not normal. It could be broken or worn engine or transmission mounts. The new shocks and springs could have changed the geometry in the rear end, thus causing the differential or other odd frame noises. A body mount could be loose if it is a rusty car. Heck, it could be the spare tire jumping around if it isn't screwed down. Like Roy said, it could also be ball joints or worn rubber in the stabilizer bar bushings or links. It would help if you could narrow down where the noise is coming from.

Keep us posted.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

In addition to all the things previously mentioned I'd check the idler arm for bad bushings, particularly if there is any control issues after hitting a bump or even a small pot hole. Obviously something is bottoming out and that is far from normal. Actually, if you haven't already, you should replace any rubber bushings or bumpers associated with the suspension and steering, even if they look decent they'll still be hard as a brick an unable to perform their function properly.

Jim

[60FlatTop]

DJ, I had a similar problem with a 1969 Fleetwood, banged over every tar strip. On that car in was the camber. As I remember the tires leaned inward too much at the top. Those cars had a swiveling ball joint to adjust with. Your car would have shims. don't cut the alignment guy any slack, make him do it right.

Bernie

[Guest djohn81641]

@ First Born: Thank you.

@ Roy: I will look into the ball joints more throughly.

@ Mike: I will look into the ball joints more throughly. I know it is not the spare tire. Only happens in the front. The back handles bumps quite well actually. Engine and transmission mounts have been changed. But I will check all the rubber in the suspension system. I know all that was not changed.

@Jim: The above statement addresses your comment about the rubber, and I will have the idler arm checked.

@60 Flat Top. I will have the camber checked too.

@ All: Thank you guys so much for your suggestions and insight. I thought the car should not be doing this. My mechanic told me all old cars from this era, handle the way mine does over bumps, but I didn't believe. What person back in the 60's would pay for a luxury car, and then have it go "bam" when it hits a bump. No one in my opionion.

I will keep you guys posted as to my progress. The ride is like a cloud on smooth rode, so now I just have to smooth out the rough spots.

[NTX5467]

When checking the rubber in the suspension, do NOT forget to check the lower control arm bumper (i.e., "travel limiter"). If it's not there, it'll allow metal things to touch which should NOT touch due to the lower control arm travelling upward too much.

A worn idler arm can cause a noise on tar strips, which happened many years ago on a car I was driving back then . . . plus a little looser handling in the turns.

Of course, there's the issue of just what speed these "bams" are happening at! Plus, all "gas shocks" are NOT specifically "heavy duty" shocks, just using internal gas pressure to keep the shock fluid from aerating as the internal piston moves up and down. By observation, it's not really possible to purchase a "1 3/8 inch piston Heavy Duty" shock as we could when that car was new . . . think Monroe Super 500s, back then, for example. Now, you get pretty much what people want to sell, which is NOT the same. Plus, some claim that internal valving is more generic than it was when the vehicle was newer. Many issues that have changed over the years!

If the rear springs are in good condition and correct for the vehicle, then air shocks should not need more than the minimum pressure in them for "trunk unloaded" driving, which would be about 35psi. Having more pressure than that for "trunk unloaded" use would indicate that something is wrong, somewhere, that the higher pressure is compensating for.

When new, cars as yours rode smooothly and quietly, but they usually did NOT do too well when driven faster than normal . . . rough roads and turns were places where above-normal speeds could make you realize you were driving too fast, by observation . . . but straight-line cruising was great at almost any sane and legal speed.

With all due respect, I would suspect that P235/75R-15 tires are one notch too big for that vehicle. To me, P225/75R-15s would be closer in physical size and diameter. A heavier tire will be harder for the shocks to control, in a bump situations, too, than even a slightly lighter one, plus possible rubbing issues.

Still, don't forget to check the condition and height of the lower control arm bumpers, plus the bumpers for the rear suspension, too.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[60FlatTop]

DJ, I have always heard people say "old cars do this or that" from rough running to rough riding. You are right, they never would have left the showroom if they drove like that.

Three major things keep that perception alive:

1. People who don't want to spend any money.

2. Mechanics who don't know how to fix the car.

3. Mechanics who think ALL customers don't want to spend the money.

You have put a lot of hard work and money into that car. The problem is number 2 or number 3. That's what I meant by don't cut them slack.

Bernie

[buick5563]

DJ,

Keep after it, you'll find it. It took me years of getting used to a clang before realizing it was a $3 speedometer cable bushing. I'm all quiet now!

[Thriller]

@ All: Thank you guys so much for your suggestions and insight. I thought the car should not be doing this. My mechanic told me all old cars from this era, handle the way mine does over bumps, but I didn't believe. What person back in the 60's would pay for a luxury car, and then have it go "bam" when it hits a bump. No one in my opionion.

Sounds like time to have a chat with your mechanic. Part of the chat needs to be that he'd better smarten up, or you'll be looking to replace him. Your money fits into the other guys till / wallet just as easily.

Now, expectations are part of the problem. You can't expect a 1960 to be like a new car. However, any noises you may hear should be able to be explained, such as road noise from a less tightly sealed cabin. Mechanical noises like a bam should not occur.

Good luck.

[Guest djohn81641]

@ NTX5467: Thank you for taking time out to write a very detailed analysis. You are dead on about the radial height. I reduce the psi in the air shocks to 50 and that made a big difference. Much smoother, may go a little lower, but the mechanic says the air shocks are designed to work at a minimum psi of 50. Today's gas shocks are not heavy duty, espeically with it comes to a 4200 ibs car. You are right on, again!

@ 60FltatTop: You are 100% correct, so many mechanics don't think we are willing to invest in the car, but at this point I have gone this far, so I am going all the way. It was my dad's car (he is 83) and it is not leaving the family anytime soon.

@buick5563: Right, I have to be persistent and have patience, but eventually I will solve it.

@Thiller: You are right, I have had to change my expectation of what a 60 should sound and ride like. While I have done a lot a work to the car, it will never be as quiet, or as smooth as a modern car, because of it's design and the technology of the era. I can accept that now, after reading all the comments and looking into the matter further. A 60 is best designed for smooth road cruising, and when it comes to bumps slow down as much as safely possible.

Edited March 20, 2011 by djohn81641 (see edit history)

[Thriller]

@Thiller: You are right

I have to savour this...it doesn't happen very often. :eek::D:D