540K Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 The ebay ad clearly states that the body is in Europe. I don't know why that was an issue. It took a lot of skill to make that body, but the builder was obviously not trying to make an exact replica like Nawrocki or Prahl, just something perhaps better than the fiberglass kits, but I think it's going to take a lot more money to build than it's going to be worth when it is finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted June 29, 2016 Share Posted June 29, 2016 ok then since we started this conversation Let me ask it was really hard and need a lot of skills time in 19-20 century but now it a 2016 21st century we have so much technology as 3d max, 3d printing, 3d cutting, 3d scanning, step 1 need to create a 3d model do not have real car? Then scan (3d scanner) so we can use model 1;18 or bigger 2. make 3d model for the body in 3d MAX (application) 3. build from it real size (on computer) 4 from 3d max create a file for CNC machines to build a wood fraim for body 5. cover all wood with metal 6. ready to go body NO? I just shared with idea I was thinking about doing. but that all real only need some time and money. Please correct me if I am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted June 30, 2016 Share Posted June 30, 2016 I hope did not made anyone fill bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 1, 2016 Share Posted July 1, 2016 You make it sound easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 1, 2016 Author Share Posted July 1, 2016 Dav, I agree we have technology and tools to make easy what was once done completely by skill. Still not a trivial exercise to build reasonable facsimiles (or exact copies) of some of these cars. Just ask Craig! I have seen some of the work done by the Eastern European builders and at least in pictures it looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Found a new home for one more pre war Mercedes Gone to Germany Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 that one gone to new home last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 cab F only 50 were build 12 survived Found new home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindberg Posted July 6, 2016 Share Posted July 6, 2016 Any ideea what it is worth? 230 f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 8, 2016 Share Posted July 8, 2016 Hello give me a call you want we can talk can help you sale it ? 414 six 3O 2853 David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted July 11, 2016 Share Posted July 11, 2016 On 28.6.2016 at 4:16 AM, alsancle said: The diesel engine will be very hard to find I would imagine. It's not so hard to find, the "kompressor" engine is hard to find I've on 260d engine for trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zup Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 (edited) http://www.ebay.com/itm/272304538668?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Wonder why the owner of the Chassis is not buying that one - wrong pricing? Edited July 14, 2016 by zup (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 7 hours ago, zup said: http://www.ebay.com/itm/272304538668?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Wonder why the owner of the Chassis is not buying that one - wrong pricing? Wrong body Special Roadster is more expensive when you want to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
540K Posted July 14, 2016 Share Posted July 14, 2016 Some new blood in the forum. Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 14, 2016 Author Share Posted July 14, 2016 15 hours ago, Dad said: Wrong body Special Roadster is more expensive when you want to sell it. Assuming similar condition the two cars would be a wash. But the condition is not similar. The issue for the guy with the special roadster is that switching back to the Cab B body will cost some real money, not to mention he will need to fabricate the fenders too. When he is done he will have a car that is worth no more than his current reproduction special roadster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadster36 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 (edited) Wow Hans, Nice What happend with the 230 OTP ? groetjes Jan Edited July 16, 2016 by roadster36 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadster36 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 540 aktion P http://ww3.autoscout24.de/classified/287990967?asrc=st|as Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 That correct that one is from mn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Action p I did inspected. Wrong engine and many questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Are they really asking under 300k for the Aktion P? I thought it sold for around 800k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Oh no way That is scam All photos from auction That car was sold on auction and now under the restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 20 minutes ago, 540K said: What was the chassis number? PM send Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
540K Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/23603/preview_lot/4987334/?category=list&length=10&page=1 Wow! The stolen roadster finally reappears! After the sale in 2011, the new owner took it to Germany where it was impounded. The German court awarded ownership back to the family from whom it was stolen in WWII. Now estimated at $5M? I think it does closer to $10M this time around with the title clear and the story. It's as good a story as the von Krieger. Well, maybe not $10M, but more than $5M. Edited July 18, 2016 by 540K (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 There is no real track record for the short tail roadster at auction. I would think that 7.5 million would be the right spot. 5 seems to low and 10 to high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I would surprise if someone will spend tons of money for a car with all this history and not be under risk that will happen again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 My understanding is that the history has been resolved. It may be that the original owner's family is getting a cut of the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
540K Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 (edited) Yes, this is the safest car you can buy now. Ownership has already been settled by the court. Zero risk. I don't know why the original owner's family would not get 100% of the proceeds. I did not read about any settlement, and that's the only way anyone else would get money. The news report said the judge awarded ownership to the Prym family. No one else would get a dime. I don't know how the German courts work, but in the US the family would likely have recovered attorneys' fees and costs, giving them the car free and clear without any unrecouped litigation expense. Given that the German government seized the car, I'm not sure the family had any expense to begin with. Do you think the seller pocketed $3.7M (less the seller's commission)? Who is the big loser? The RM seller, the RM buyer or RM? Fascinating case. It's also interesting that RM is not the auction house in September, so they're not getting a 2nd bite at the apple. My guess - RM's consignment contracts are probably airtight to protect them from liability, and they were probably required under the contract to forward the sale proceeds to the seller without incurring any liability. So I believe the question is whether the Dutch buyer can recover from the seller. On one hand fairness seems to dictate that the seller should not profit, but on the other hand the Dutch buyer was in the same exact position as the seller - neither did enough homework and both took the risk. All the previous owners since 1945 took a gamble, but the rat trap slammed shut during the Dutch buyer's ownership - his bad luck. I think the buyer took the whole loss. Edited July 18, 2016 by 540K (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 The "safest" car is a Mytropia delivered one with paperwork. After that, then this one. I think the history sort of hurts it a bit since it was "stolen" at one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
540K Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Excellent point, but American and postwar cars can end up with questionable title after partnerships fail, handshake deals are not honored, thefts occur, years of neglect or lack of documentation. Give me one on which a court has recently settled title. But your example was "with paperwork," and you're right - documentation is the key. Yes, the theft is an unfortunate part of the history, but not just the theft per se, but that it was presumably stolen and used by the Nazis. I'll never understand why a Nazi-owned car commands a premium, but I suppose it is akin to celebrity ownership in a warped sense. Regardless, a car with a story is likely to sell for more than the same car without a story (celebrity owner, auto show display, actual pace cars, interesting "barn" finds like von Krieger, race history, movie/TV cars, etc.). Any effect on the value from the 1945 theft should be overcome by the fact that the proceeds of this sale are going to the rightful owner's family. As a result of the reparation, it is almost like a charity sale. If it was Barrett-Jackson I'm sure they'd have the family up on the podium telling their story. (rolling my eyes) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Craig, I think the "Nazi" history hurts cars. 3.5 million for this seems very cheap and I can't help be think the original owner had something to do with it: http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/22177/lot/16/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 (edited) Edited July 22, 2016 by Davlet https://www.rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/MO16/Monterey/lots/r107-1934-mercedes-benz-500-k-cabriolet-a-by-sindelfingen/238685 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 One more super charged is camming to market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadster36 Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 380K conv http://www.prewarcar.com/classifieds/ad202941.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 That just a body Mr. Theathen saling should be 290 220 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 I wonder where the chassis went? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 that nice question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 wait Know where to find 2 380 engines AJ I think I did send you photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 Here we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsancle Posted July 27, 2016 Author Share Posted July 27, 2016 Dav, does the 380 engine have the blower and accessories? The guys in Poland could build the chassis. Still a huge project for a 600k car when you are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davlet Posted July 27, 2016 Share Posted July 27, 2016 I think all there But not sure if owner of engine is thinking about building 380 actually in Poland is few chassis for sale now 540K 500K, 320 and 380 I mean all reproduction fraims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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