1914 White Question

[Mark N]

Hello,

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I am new to the board and wanted to correspond with someone who has a 1914 White. I have a 1914 White GEC 4-45 chassis that has a hearse body on it. It is undergoing restoration and I have some questions.

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I posted some photographs online. The following link will bring you to them.

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I have a photograph of a mount above the magneto. I can’t figure out what this is used for. Any thoughts?

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Thanks.

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Mark

[W_Higgins]

Those two bosses sticking out once had a large pin going through them with a cast aluminum plate upon which a starter-generator was perched (in fact, I now see you have the pin). Good luck finding one. I've been trying for close to 15 years.

Very cool find, by the way. So, how many linear inches of crack does your block have in it?

[Mark N]

Thank you for the response. I think I may have the starter generator with this. It came with an extra engine, transmission, and lots of parts. I will take a photo of it and post it.

Not sure the length of the crack, I got it this way. The repair seems solid.

All the best,

Mark

[Bob McAnlis]

Where does the starter/generator belong?

[W_Higgins]

If you happen to find that you have a spare starter-generator and you'd like to sell it, I would be very interested.

I brazed-up about 28 inches worth of crack in the 1912 that I was working on. They all do it, and it's not necessarily from freezing. White must have had problems with pent-up stress in their castings. The engine block, in a general sense, is actually quite common as they kept using it through about the 1930's, if I recall. I don't think I've ever seen one that wasn't cracked.

[Mark N]

Thanks again for the information. I just posted three additional photographs of what I think is the starter generator. It does seem to fit that mount above the magneto.

This may seem like a novice question, but the radiator on the car was drained and I wanted to fill it with anti-freeze to minimize rust. How much do you put in?

All the best,

Mark

[Larry Schramm]

I would use a 50/50 mix.

[W_Higgins]

Right idea, but I'm pretty sure it's the wrong unit. In fact, I think it's from a Dodge. They ran 12v North-East starter-generators.

They're so scarce that I've never seen one in person, but I believe that you should have an Entz. Also, do you know if your car is 18v? Earlier Whites were.

What you have would probably work, as it looks like somebody went to the effort to finish adapting it. The original units must have been a lot of trouble. It seems like most were removed and discarded.

[startergenrebuilder]

Walter is correct. According to my books, it should have an Entz Starter/Generator combination. It should also be a 18 volt system. The unit you have pictured is from a early 20's Dodge. By looking at the wiring diagram, someone must have made some pretty extensive wiring changes to install the Northeast unit. I'll check my cores, but highly unlikely I will have the correct unit for you. Never hurts to look though. Anyway, If I can be of any assistance in any way, feel free to contact me. I specialize in restoring antique electrical units including: Starters, Generators. Combination units, Distributors and more.

Good Luck,

Jason

Advanced Electrical Rebuilders

Grand Ledge, MI

jason@aerrebuild.com

www.aerrebuild.com

[W_Higgins]

This may seem like a novice question, but the radiator on the car was drained and I wanted to fill it with anti-freeze to minimize rust. How much do you put in?

Larry's right about the 50/50 mix. I would recommend that if this is one that hasn't been run in awhile, or ever had a full rebuild, that you remove the coolant jacket covers and make sure the block isn't packed full of crap. Aside from it clogging your radiator, those heavy pockets of mud can generate hot spots that will cause problems later.

[Guest cben09]

I had a later 1/2 ton White,,and it had a generator on top of the mag, with a silent chain drive,,I would wonder if the timing gears were of such a size to carry starter load,,,,but if you used the compresson relief it should be ok,,,That engine cranked easily anyhow so why bother,,

Take great care there is no moisture in the crankcase to pit the ball bearings,,,Also be sure the heat riser above the carb is ok,,,if they freeze,they close the hole for the mixture/carb-elbow-block,,Have fun,,Ben

[Mark N]

Thanks for all the advice. The engine has been rebuilt, but I will remove the coolant jacket cover and check. After I check, how much 50/50 antifreeze do I put in? Do I fill up the radiator until I see the coolant? As I mentioned this may be a novice question, but I just want to make sure. Thanks.

All the best,

Mark

[Larry Schramm]

Fill it up until you see the coolant mix. Remember one of the things that modern coolant has is water pump lubricant and other additives including rust inhibitors. When I started using 50/50, my trucks waterpump seals stopped leaking.

[LI_BENTLEY]

The Northeast starter/gen is mounted on the Einz Starter/gen plate. The overriding clutch that mounts in front of the mag is missing only the square it rides on is left. The old system was probably removed because of troubles and required 3 - 6 volt batteries. The original system will break the timing gears if the spark is not retarded. In traffic you will forget to do this and a very intense repair will ensure. White in 1915 mover this starter/gen under the body with a shaft running forward to the Cardin shaft with the same silent chain drive. Do not put a starter on in the original position. White also later used the Northeast system mounted to the engine on the 30hp GK engines. Truck looks great, best of luck, will email with more info.