Another Can you identify this

[Guest FredDwyer]

I continue to digitize photo's from my grandfather's early 20th century negatives. You helped recently by identifying a 1916 Willys Overland Touring car in which my mother, at about age 4, appears in the back seat. I do so appreciate your expert help. Now I'm afraid I'm about to ask a tougher question. I have a series of pictures of a parade which I estimate to have taken place around 1910. There are 3 realatively clear images of cars. If you can tag any of these with a model year, I'll know the photo is no older than that. Of course, since auto's at that time did not get annual redesigns, I expect that answering this question with any certainty will be very difficult. Now lets see if I can manage to attach the 3 images.:confused:

[keiser31]

Car in photo #3 looks almost like a 1915 Saxon.

[Guest Silverghost]

1910 might be a bit early for that parade~

Seems a bit later from the cars pictured.

[oldcarfudd]

The pictures are pretty grainy when enlarged, so there's not much detail. But they're definitely not 1910. Vertical windshields, electric lights, not much bright work, a demountable spare - these look like cars of 1915-1920 vintage.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest BobD735]

The car in photo #3 appears to be a 1916/17 Chalmers Cabriolet, with it's right front suicide door open, and it's top down.

Bob

[Guest BobD735]

It's very fuzzy, but photo #2 looks like a 1917 Chalmers 7-passenger touring. Notice the "double cowl" behind the front driver and passenger.

Ref: "70 Years of Chrysler", page 105.

Bob

[Guest BobD735]

Photo #1, is a little more difficult, but I think, with it's vertical front windshield, it's a 1916 Chalmers 5-passenger touring.

[Guest FredDwyer]

You folks are doing it again, helping me to reconstruct some of my family history. It's greatly appreciated and I hope more people will leave their comments. For now I'm convinced that the picture dates no earlier than 1915 and may well be at least 1917. That said I thought you might like to see the overall photo's from which these pictures were enlarged.

Edited November 22, 2010 by FredDwyer (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

Neat pictures

[oldcarfudd]

Sheesh! No wonder they're grainy when blown way up. Were these professional pictures or amateur snapshots? If snapshots, they're astoundingly good, given the film of the day.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest FredDwyer]

Amateur snapshots, but my grandfather was serious about photography for his whole life. These are 3" x 5" negatives, most likely shot on a tripod. Definately not from a box Brownie. I don't know what camera he was using then, but from the '40s through the '60s it was Leicas and Speed Graphics.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

In the vertical shot, a ways behind the big touring car appears to be a black-radiator Ford, so that indicates the photo was taken no earlier than 1917 ?

Great photos ! Love those wonderful old s-l-o-w speed films ( possibly plates) and large format cameras... still use them myself from time to time.

:cool:

[oldcarfudd]

Assuming your eyes are better than mine (EVERYBODY'S eyes are better than mine!) and that it really IS a black-radiator Ford, the picture could still be from late 1916. According to Bruce McCalley, author of "Model T Ford, the Car that Changed the World", the black-radiator 1917 models were introduced in August, 1916.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Graham Man]

I agree 1915-17 era, did anybody notice the "Boston" sign on the top of the first picture. Big sign so I am guessing Boston Mass?

[Guest FredDwyer]

The Boston sign is for the Boston Store. In Worcester, MA, the largest department store was Denholm & McKay, also known as "The Boston Store" even though it had no business connection with Boston. As a matter of fact, I worked there as a stock boy during my Junior and senior years in high school.

[Guest FredDwyer]

Is this the car you believe to be a black radiator model T? Is that really black?

I have made another discovery which seems to finally date the picture. Since you put me on the right track regarding probable years, I have found a Buffalo Bill show schedule. Remember, my grandfather labeled this series of pictures "Buffalo Bill Parade." The last year was 1916, Buffalo Bill died in January of 1917. The show toured Massachusetts from 6/7/1916 through 7/4/1916. During that time they list play dates in 13 towns and cities. In Boston they played a full week (6 days, Sundays off) all others were for 1 day with no days off betwen cities. Oddly, Worcester, the second largest city in the state is not listed, although they had played in Worcester a number of times in earlier years. However, as the show moved across the state West to East, they played in Springfield on the 8th and Webster on the 10th. Where were they on Friday the 9th? Traveling from Springfield to Webster would have taken them through Worcester. With your automobile dateing, this has to be it, anyway it's the best I'm going to do and I feel pretty comfortable with June 9, 1916. Thanks to one and all. Does anyone see any major flaws in this "leap of faith" conclusion?

[oldcarfudd]

Fred: Sounds good to me. Also, seeing the blowup of the Model T, I'd say it's a '15 or '16 brass radiator model. All circumstantial evidence, but there are lot of circumstances pointing in the same direction.

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[Guest BobD735]

Fred,

I did further research after reading your concluding entry.

Regarding my input to your photo #2, I discovered in "The Automobile" publication, dated July 6, 1916, a Pantasote ad on page 97. The ad in part reads..."They are giving buyers of the Chalmers 7-22 (7-passenger, 122" wheelbase) the top material used on the most expensive cars...

This to me indicates that the "double cowl" 7-passenger had already been on the market in 1916.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Fred,

Since you enlarged the car I was referring to, it looks less like a "black radiator Ford" (1917-1925), and more like a "brass-radiator" Ford it does appear to have electric headlamps, which puts it between 1914(?)-1916 ?

The car behind it is definitely a brass-radiator T...

Regards,

Frank

[Guest De Soto Frank]

I wonder if any of our license plate experts can ID the year(s) of the plate on the touring car in photo #2 at the top of this thread ?

[drwatson]

The plate on the touring car in photo #2 has the look of a 1914 MASS. plate, which was blue numbers on white porcelain and had "MASS" written in vertical letters at the left side.

A 1916 MA plate had a similar look which was blue numbers on a cream background.

Edited November 23, 2010 by drwatson (see edit history)

[Povertycove]

Car #3 is almost certainly a Saxon Six -- first introduced in 1915.

[1937hd45]

Both T's are 1915-16 with brass radiators, too much firewall showing for them to be 17-22 era style.

[Guest FredDwyer]

Thanks one more time to all for your enthusiastic help, you're a great bunch of folks. Just so you'll know that I do share your interest in beautiful old cars, take a look at Auburn Cord Duesenberg - Fred Dwyer, Photo/Video | SmugMug