Rear wheel removal . . . . . how??

[astroguy]

Trying to remove the wheel off a 1929 REO truck. I assume this to be mounted on a tapered axle, it has one square key in a slot. I have a very heavy duty wheel puller and no amount of pull has budged the wheel. A friend stopped by and suggested tensioning with the wheel puller and then heating the hub untill a soft glow and pull more. Also tried hitting the end of the axle with a big brass hammer, no result.

Any ideas, suggestions?

[W_Higgins]

I've found people have different definitions of "heavy duty" when it comes to tapered hub pullers. Mine is the one shown below. Some heat to warm it is o.k., but don't go so far as to make it change colors. Before heating, get the puller on and let it sit with tension overnight. Sometimes they'll come off with time. If you can do it with the nut still on the axle, that will keep it from flying off. If not, stand clear in the event you really have to crank down on it. Worst one I ever removed flew clear of the axle and nearly landed on my feet. When you reassemble a tapered axle / hub set-up, make sure everything is dry. People make the mistake of thinking anti-seize will help to get it off the next time, but that only makes matters worse as it allows the hub to squeeze on further than it was intended.

Edit to add: don't hammer on the axle -- aside from the obvious of damaging the axle, you run the risk of damaging the internals of your differential. If your puller won't do it, whacking the axle won't, either. There's also a "right" way to do it that I won't go into here, but it's not ideal, particularly if you already have a puller in hand.

Edited November 13, 2010 by W_Higgins (see edit history)

[Guest billybird]

I too have the same type wheel puller pictured above. It has never failed to remove a wheel in many years of use. Also , I have never used any heat. However, I always wedge a lug wrench or pipe between the legs of the puller and the floor so the hub doesn't move at all. My puller does not have the part made onto it that shows the hammer hitting above. Rather it is "hexed" on the end so I can use a big wrench and srike the wrench with a hammer. Never failed.

[astroguy]

Thanks for the responses.

The wheel is a metal spoked wheel and only held on with the splined axle. There are no lug nuts to attach to. My wheel puller is a 3" square tube with a 1" diameter bolt passing through a 1" nut, plenty big enough. The difficulty lies in the 3" tube will only allow attachement with rope or cable in two areas, not three, so maintaning a straight pull is a little more difficult.

I will follow up tomorrow with a better means of attachement and leave the puller in place with tension for a period of days and give it some extra nudges as the time passes.

[W_Higgins]

You may not be dealing with a tapered axle given what you've described. Can you post a photo? There are other truck designs where the wheel is driven by the axle but rides on bearings, like below:

[TexRiv_63]

If you do not have lug nuts, do you have a threaded hub that the hubcap screws onto? If so you probably need the type of wheel puller that screws over the hub in place of the hubcap. These are available on Ebay but you need to know the size and pitch of the threads. Adding a picture here would be helpful.

[Larry Schramm]

Can you post any pictures. That would help on determing what kind of axle attachment you have.

If you truly have a tapered axle to the hub, one other method is to loosen up the axle nut ( DO NOT TAKE IT OFF)and SLOWLY drive the truck in some figure 8's in a parking lot. This should get it loose.

[astroguy]

The axle is solid, has a square key in the keyway. The bolts you see are not accesible as they have nuts on the backside, inside the brake drum, which is what I am trying to remove.

I had been pulling on the steel spokes but now think the loads are too far spread out and a more direct pull might be needed. Some one suggested a wheel puller directly attached to the threaded area of the wheel where the hub cap threads on..... is that strong enough? I dont have many options.

Thanks for everyones help and replies.

Craig

[keiser31]

This is the puller that you need. There are several on ebay right this moment. All you need to know is the thread size. Fits right on the hubcap threads.

[W_Higgins]

Given what you have there, it probably does take a threaded puller. If it's not a common size, it may be tough. My collection of o.d. pullers is well over 20-something now and I know there are more variations. Mic the o.d. of your hub and tell me the thread count and I can at least tell you if it's a common one or not. If it comes down to it you can have one made, too.

[Larry Schramm]

Craig,

If you cannot find a puller and have a good hub cap, I can give you the name of a guy that will make you a puller for about $125.00. I looked everywhere for one for my truck and ended up just getting one made. He does good work and it was well worth it.

[Guest cben09]

On the screw pullers,,put some anti seeze on the puller screw,,,Ben

[astroguy]

I located a man with several old wheel pullers and chose one that should have worked..... problem was the axle sticks out about almost 2" and the puller did not have that much depth. I reinstalled my puller using cables on the spokes and ran up the tension to a point where I started to worry about bending the steel spokes, and there it sits under tension waiting for the moon and sun's gravitational fields to line up and the wheel should pop off.

Some people say heat is ok and others do not, an option to be looked at later. I do like the idea of driving around with a loose axle nut, but i have been accused of driving that way for years. :-)

I do have a lathe and can make a puller if all else fails. 16 TPI x 2.615" diameter on the axle which equates to almost 2 5/8" diameter.

[Mark66A]

There is a fellow in the Willys Overland Knight club that makes wheel pullers to fit your car. Send him a hub cap and he will return it along with a correct wheel puller. They work GREAT! Contact George McMurtry at gmcmurtry@bbc.net or at 308-5861930. He lives in Nebraska.

[W_Higgins]

I reinstalled my puller using cables on the spokes and ran up the tension to a point where I started to worry about bending the steel spokes, and there it sits under tension waiting for the moon and sun's gravitational fields to line up and the wheel should pop off.

Some people say heat is ok and others do not, an option to be looked at later. I do like the idea of driving around with a loose axle nut, but i have been accused of driving that way for years. :-)

I do have a lathe and can make a puller if all else fails. 16 TPI x 2.615" diameter on the axle which equates to almost 2 5/8" diameter.

Under these conditions it may never pop off depending on how tensioned you have it. As I'm sure you know, once the spokes start to deflect, it's pointless to crank down on it any more than you already have.

The heat thing is fine to a limit. I mean, hey, it gets hot when you drive and brake hard. As with most things, the "if a little's good, more must be better" rule doesn't apply here. Heat it up a few hundred degrees. You're not going to screw up your hub until you start approaching a dull cherry, which is around 800 degrees. A little expansion in a taper can release a lot of pressure.

The driving with the nut loose thing works and is a good suggestion. Did it on a tour last year when I didn't have a puller handy. All it takes is backing it off a couple of flats and swerving a little at low speed, or driving over some potholes, if you want to speed things along.

I've got what I think is that same size puller (it's a little hard to measure from the i.d.) and it has a 3 in. center depth. At least in diameter, that size of puller is out there.

[keiser31]

I agree with W_Higgins...tension on the spokes will probably not help in the least. In fact, doing that may put even MORE pressure on the center of the wheel. All of your hub tension is centered and the threaded puller is bound (sorry for the pun) to be the only way to remove the wheel. One way to fix the "depth of the puller" problem is to get a pipe that fits the puller and then a pipe sleeve from the hub to the pipe on the puller....

Edited November 18, 2010 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

Another thought -- if somebody recommends that you whack on the end of a threaded puller with a hammer, don't do that. People may get lucky on occasion when the shock causes it to come off, but with a threaded puller installed and under tension, whacking on the screw in the puller doesn't push the axle out like people think. It just ruins the screw (and possibly more) because you're bashing the whole assembly.

There are some threaded pullers where the screw is drilled with a rod installed and you can whack on that. I have a couple of those and that's what they're designed for.

For applications where a ding won't show on your hub, with the puller under tension you can hold an air hammer firmly against he side of the hub and blurp it a few times. Sometimes a good shock applied properly is a great way to get things apart.

[keiser31]

I forgot to add that the length of the pipe sleeve and pipe will depend on how much clearance you need between puller and axle. Could end up being a few threads long.

[astroguy]

Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions.

I reapplied the wheel puller and left the wheel under tension, used some heat on the hub and .... POP... off came the wheel. Not much heat was needed.

Thanks again, great people here.

[W_Higgins]

Cool. Glad you got it. When was the last time it was off? Next time will probably be easier, but don't count on it. If it's all in nice shape and makes good contact it will stick again. Reassemble clean and dry and find a proper puller that fits before the next time.

[Guest stude8]

The correct method to pull your wheels is illustrated in this forum post: http://forums.aaca.org/f126/what-type-rear-wheel-hub-puller-275629.html

go to response #4 and follow link to 259862 , the special tool setup that worked on my 1928 Studebaker wood wheel hub is shown. Like others said it is NOT GOOD to apply pulling to wood spoke fellows that coluld fracture the wood spoke grain on your apparent good wood spokes.

Stude8

[keiser31]

The correct method to pull your wheels is illustrated in this forum post: http://forums.aaca.org/f126/what-type-rear-wheel-hub-puller-275629.html

go to response #4 and follow link to 259862 , the special tool setup that worked on my 1928 Studebaker wood wheel hub is shown. Like others said it is NOT GOOD to apply pulling to wood spoke fellows that coluld fracture the wood spoke grain on your apparent good wood spokes.

Stude8

Not to be picky, but only to inform...he has steel spokes, but you're correct about not pulling on them.

Edited November 21, 2010 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[Guest stude8]

By golly your eyes are better than mine, that wood tone rust tricked me and the other post with wood spoke wheels tuned me in wrong.

Pulling on the hub is especially important when the hub has been on the taper axle for 60 or 70 years and doesn't want to pop loose easy.

This is the photo of puller setup I wanted to show but could not locate yesterday.

Stude8

[W_Higgins]

This is the photo of puller setup I wanted to show but could not locate yesterday.

Stude8

That's an interesting bit of fixturing. Is the split clamp grabbing on a groove turned behind the threads, or what?

[keiser31]

That's an interesting bit of fixturing. Is the split clamp grabbing on a groove turned behind the threads, or what?

I am wondering the same thing.

[Guest stude8]

No, the split clamp was built to thread onto the hub cap threads on the hub (2-3/4" x 16 TIP) . After several failed trials to get adequate grip with the old time cup shape pullers and then on the newly made split clamp it was obvious the amount of pulling effort needed the Owatonna hub puller designed for modern studded wheels.

I had a local welding & metal shop cut me a piece of 1/4" steel 12" square and bore a 2-13/16" ID clearance hole to fit over the wood wheel hub behind the hub cap threaded area. I drilled three 1/2" holes for 1/2x20 lug bolts at 120 degree spacing on a 5-1/2' bolt circle. THEN with Acetylene torch heat on the hub and after pulling the 3 arms as tight as I could with an Ingersol Rand air lug wrench AND several 24" swings with an 11 LB sledge against the Owatonna shaft there was resounding BOOM when it let go its grip on the taper axle.

Afterward the 1/4" steel plate had warped 1/2" at the center area from the effort applied? That Devil was on for keeps (1928 Studebaker Commander rear axle 15" brake drum) and it took quite a bit of force to get the hub loose as you can see.

Stude8

[keiser31]

The problem I see with that setup is the same problem I see with the "spoke pulling" problem. You are not using all of the force at the hub. That was evident by the flexing of the 1/4" steel plate! Lucky it did not fly off of the threads.

[Guest stude8]

Take a better look at the clamping tool, it is 3/4" steel plate threaded all the way thru. Once on the hub cap threads and clamped nothing would pull it off the threads. Even though the 1/4" steel plate flexed under the force of pulling ALL THE FORCE was directed onto the hub itself. The taper axle end hub contact area is about 3" long, after 50 or 60 years of griping it was very firmly in place.

There was no way the 1/4" steel plate would have extruded its 2-13/16" hole over the 6" square hub clamp tool.

Stude8

[keiser31]

That does clarify things.

[W_Higgins]

That's a nice clamp, just like how some pullers are made. I wish more clamped because on so many hubs the threads are already compromised.

[Guest cben09]

And don't torque the axle nut by standing on the wrench,and jumping,!!! Ben

[Guest Pierce1927]

The gentleman referred to in the thread below that makes wheel pullers

is George McMurtry and his phone number as listed below is accurate 308-586-1930 but he has a new email address which is: gmcmurtry@embarqmail.com. Pierce1927

[Guest newstew]

I also need a 3inch by 16 thread puller Anybody goy one for sale or rent ?