Rustproofing on Show Vehicles

[charlier]

After a conversation I had at Fall Hershey this year with an AACA Member and fellow DFer, I got to thinking.

In the late 1970s thru early 1990s there were a few companies (ie Rusty Jones and Ziebart to name two) that Rustproofed vehicles. In some cases, new car dealers were franchisees and put it on the new cars they sold on their lots.

When these products were applied, holes were drilled in various body panels and the material was sprayed in. The holes were then sealed with plastic plugs. In some cases the undercarriage and engine bay were also sprayed with this material.

This brings up a few questions. First, is there a maximum point deduction per vehicle when rustproofing has been applied? Second, since this material can be applied to the chassis, engine bay and body which judge (or all three) would deduct if they found this material had been applied?

With more and more vehicles from these years beginning to appear at AACA Meets I was wondering how this is handled now or if the judging rules need to be amended to cover this situation.

[Shop Rat]

I found this thread about undercoating and deductions using the search function.

http://forums.aaca.org/f121/undercoating-loss-points-192819.html

[ex98thdrill]

In the late 1970s thru early 1990s there were a few companies (ie Rusty Jones and Ziebart to name two) that Rustproofed vehicles. In some cases, new car dealers were franchisees and put it on the new cars they sold on their lots.

When these products were applied, holes were drilled in various body panels and the material was sprayed in. The holes were then sealed with plastic plugs. In some cases the undercarriage and engine bay were also sprayed with this material.

This brings up a few questions. First, is there a maximum point deduction per vehicle when rustproofing has been applied? Second, since this material can be applied to the chassis, engine bay and body which judge (or all three) would deduct if they found this material had been applied?

With more and more vehicles from these years beginning to appear at AACA Meets I was wondering how this is handled now or if the judging rules need to be amended to cover this situation.

My '87 Mustang GT has 13,000 miles on it, it's all original, and I'll find out in 2012.

[charlier]

I found this thread about undercoating and deductions using the search function.

http://forums.aaca.org/f121/undercoating-loss-points-192819.html

Shoprat,

Thank you for posting the link to that discussion.

I agree that if the material was not put on at the factory it is (by AACA Definition) a deduction of points.

There was never any doubt in my mind about that.

The point I am trying to make is should the deduction have some sort of Guideline or Maximum Amount of Points documented in the Judges Manual??? Some other areas/parts of a vehicle have such Maximum deductions. What about this situation?

If a vehicle has this dealer installed rustproofing on their original vehicle just how many points should the Chassis judge deduct??? 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 Points? What if a judge at one meet deducts 10 points and a different judge (with a different Team Captain) at another meet deducts 20 or 25 points?

I know of one AACA member who told me he was not going to enter his vehicle in a Judged Class (it is eligible right now) due in part to the rustproofing it had. I know of a few other vehicles from the 1980s that will be eligible soon for judged AACA Classes that have this rustproofing on it. As more and more 1970s and 1980s vehicles start showing up at AACA Meets (ie Fall Hershey this year), it stands to reason that more and more of them may have the rustproofing on them. It might be nice to have some sort of guideline in the AACA Judges manual before that happens. That will be a couple less headaches for the Chassis Judge and the Team Captain who have to judge these vehicles.

[Shop Rat]

Charlie,

My suggestion would be to contact the VP of Class Juding, Herb Oakes, with this concern. Ask that it be put on the agenda to be discussed at the 2011 Annual Meeting by the Judging Committee.

That is what I did to get the highlighted part of this rule regarding the brand of headlight not mattering put into the Judging Guidelines.

14. Headlights should be of the period and

matching. Non-matching, but period correct,

headlights will receive a 1 point deduction

per headlight. Specific brand (i.e. Guide

T-3, Westinghouse, GE, etc.) is unimportant.

The rule was made in 1995, taught by Dave Berg to me in judging school in September, 1995 but it somehow never made it into the guidelines book. It was challeged by a member here. Dave helped me bring it to the attention of the VP Class Judging at the time and it was put into the guidelines in 2009.

[GrayCav56]

I've been brushing, scraping, heating, pleading with and swearing at a lovely mixture of Rusty Jones, regular asphalt coating and road grime on the GTO and I tell ya (as if you don't already know) this is a CHORE to get off.

The underside of the Goat is a uniform shade of goo, some hardened, some not. For the most part I suspect it protected the metal, but I am finding some places where it just encapsulated some moisture, causing all sorts of havoc.

Ah, fun with old cars from the rust belt.....

[ex98thdrill]

Another challenge I see will be where it involved the retrofit to cars with air conditioning systems. Being that freon is hard to come by, that too can create a judging dilemma too.

[Larry Schramm]

If the car is retrofit capable without changing the compressor, rubber lines, etc then the only thing that would be different would be the caps on the high and lower pressure ports where the gauges go. IMO, given the gov't mandate and that R-12 is hard to come by, I would not think there should be a decuction for R-134A caps.

Again, IMO, Cool air is Cool

[Shop Rat]

If the car is retrofit capable without changing the compressor, rubber lines, etc then the only thing that would be different would be the caps on the high and lower pressure ports where the gauges go. IMO, given the gov't mandate and that R-12 is hard to come by, I would not think there should be a decuction for R-134A caps.

Again, IMO, Cool air is Cool

If they won't do a waiver on that, those of us ladies "over a certain age" will have to band together to see about getting the officials to see it our way.

[ex98thdrill]

If the car is retrofit capable without changing the compressor, rubber lines, etc then the only thing that would be different would be the caps on the high and lower pressure ports where the gauges go. IMO, given the gov't mandate and that R-12 is hard to come by, I would not think there should be a decuction for R-134A caps.

Again, IMO, Cool air is Cool

I was going to question it in the next judging school because I feel that it needs to be reflected in the rulebook.

[Shop Rat]

I was going to question it in the next judging school because I feel that it needs to be reflected in the rulebook.

It might be best to start now rather than wait for a school to bring it up.

[charlier]

Charlie,

My suggestion would be to contact the VP of Class Juding, Herb Oakes, with this concern. Ask that it be put on the agenda to be discussed at the 2011 Annual Meeting by the Judging Committee.

Susan, Thank you for your suggestion regarding contacting Herb Oakes. I will see what I can do.

I agree with others in this thread that a clarification regarding retro-fitting of Air Conditioning Systems should also be considered. Some systems can be switched over to R134a by simply replacing the fittings and of course the freon. Other systems require that more parts be replaced (ie receiver/dryer, etc). In any case, the engine judges now and in the years to come will face this challenge with more and more frequency as more and more vehicles with retro-fitted AC systems continue to come to AACA Meets.

[ted sweet]

r 12 is not hard to come by.

[Larry Schramm]

Not to be picky, But for clarificaton on refrigerant, Freon is a trademark product of The Dupont Corp and refers to refrigerant R-12.

The refrigerant used in todays automobiles is R-134A.

There is word that there is another new refrigerant going to be used starting in 2012 called R-1234YZ which will probably have another type of cap. I have not heard if this refrigerant will be retrofittable back.

[msmazcol]

Oh great! Does that mean I should buy a container load of R134 before it goes up to 10 times what it normally sells for?

R 12 did!

[ex98thdrill]

Oh great! Does that mean I should buy a container load of R134 before it goes up to 10 times what it normally sells for?

R 12 did!

Mark,

I wasn't trying to raise your blood pressure, but only trying to get people to think about the air conditioner issues if they're restoring a car equipped with air conditioning that is about to come out and be judged.

I see and talk to Herb from time to time, and when the time permitted I was going to ask him for clarification. It may be in the Judge's Guidelines, but I don't see it. Right now it's a case where I haven't had a reason to talk to Herb, so I thought I'd wait until I did.

In either case, this is a legitimate issue that may need to be given some thought to.