63 Avanti R1 - Garage Find

[unimogjohn]

Dave, the following link will give you the history of the Avanti. Bob's Studebaker Resource Website (Avanti Database)

The designation of R1 indicates a non-supercharged Avanti; R2 is a supercharged Avanti; and a R3 is a higher HP output engine with a supercharger. I do not believe that many R3s were built.

[NCReatta]

Don't forget the R4 and R5!

Here's a simple breakdown:

R1 : 240 HP /289CI 4bbl

R2 : 290 HP /289CI SC

R3 : 335 HP /304CI SC

R4 : 280 HP /289CI two 4bbl

R5 : 575 HP /?? twin SC

Edited July 28, 2011 by NCReatta (see edit history)

[D Yaros]

Dave, the following link will give you the history of the Avanti. Bob's Studebaker Resource Website (Avanti Database)

The designation of R1 indicates a non-supercharged Avanti; R2 is a supercharged Avanti; and a R3 is a higher HP output engine with a supercharger. I do not believe that many R3s were built.

I thank you for the Avanti primer on the 3, or is it 5 R's? Now I have some understanding. Appreciate it.

[Guest BobSpin]

I got the correct power steering belt and it actually fit. Had a chance to try out the Avanti with real power steering. What a difference. No more asking the guy in the seat next to me to help me turn the wheel. Everything worked great for a few days. There are no pump leaks, no hose leaks, but the control valve is another story. Obviously the seals are out in the control valve as I have a spotted trail following me home and dropping power steering fluid on the garage floor. Thankfully I had placed a large flattened cardboard box on the floor just in case. Fluid is coming out of the seal at the end in a small drip. So now the control valve has to come off and get mailed somewhere for a rebuild. I've checked several local shops and they won't tackle it even if I supply the parts. So it looks like most of my summer drive time is going to be missed. Bummer.

Edited August 3, 2011 by BobSpin (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Ouch! You might want to put in a can of seal expander/conditioner to see if that slows the flow. And I would call around to like Dave Tbow and other vendors to see if they have anything in stock. Keep in their plugging, you are almost there.

[Landman]

Here is an R3 installed in a 1957 Golden Hawk. If I remember well the motor was found still in a crate in California. That Hawk must boogie.

9 comes to mind as for the number of R3's produced. I'm sure someone can verify.

[Roger Zimmermann]

A R3 into a Golden Hawk...It's owner must surprise some other people on the road; however, the chassis is certainly not up to the power.

[Landman]

Yep, Hawk chassis are willowy. I know mine was.

[Guest stude8]

If you new to Studebaker engines guys have any R3 questions you want answered go to: Solanki Performance

web page and open Nimesh's photo library of the R3's he is building for customers.

Studebaker only built 9 factory equipped R3 Avanti's but Paxton Products built quite a few of their version called "B" engines for after market customers in the 1960's following Studebaker's 1963 shut down.

Some of Nimesh Solanki R3's are more powerful than the factory version, he exploits present day technology to its limits.

Stude8

[Landman]

Wow! That is definitely the go-to place. What good looking work & premises. I can just imagine the performance. My old Hawk would have loved one of those engines.

[Guest BobSpin]

As expected, the seals in the steering control valve are shot. I put two bottles of Lucas Power Steering Stop Leak in it and it still pours out. I just received a seal kit from Dave. T. According to Dave and the instructions, the seal kit can be put on without taking the valve off the car. If that works out, it's a great relief. I have a local shop that is going to install the seals and hopefully it back on the road. Finally got around to testing the horns. There's power at the solenoid when I push the horn button, but no sound. In fact, there isn't power at the horns when the button is pushed but, again, it is at the solenoid. This is going to be a pain to track down. Have a similar issue with the power windows. Drivers side works and the passengers side doesn't make a noise. I think this will be easier to find because there appears to be a repair in the harness where it comes through the door. Hopefully an easy fix.

[Willys77]

Enjoying your Avanti post as much as you are enjoying your Avanti when you are driving it, Bob! Don't get discouaged, there really is light at the end of the tunnel and it seems as if you are on the right side of the hill.

[Guest BobSpin]

Just returned from the shop with my Avanti - hoping that the power steering was working correctly. Unfortunately, the spool valve it too pitted to let the new seals seat correctly. So, it now looks like I am going to have to bite the bullet and buy a new control valve. Fortunately the leak isn't as bad as it was so it isn't yesterday urgent - yet. One item that is - heat. The car has been running 180 to 200. I put the right amount of antifreeze (correct type) and a bottle of Water Wetter. Seemed to work until today. It's about 100 degrees outside and it got hot - read 240. Strange it didn't boil over, but my infrared gun put the heat on the head at about 220. The engine compartment itself is really hot - so hot even the rubber vacuum hoses and spark plug wires are too hot to touch without a glove. The fan clutch is a possibility, but it seems to work right - significant air movement increase when the engine speed is increased. I just printed out from the internet everyone's opinion on why Avantis overheat so I guess I will start the check off list of each of the different opinions. Without having tried all of these possibilities, my first observation is that the air isn't moving in and out of the engine compartment fast enough - if at all.

[unimogjohn]

Bob, have you replaced the thermostat? Mine ran hot until I replaced it. Now it is rock steady at 180 most of the time. If it gets over 95 or so it will go a bit north of 190 at a stop light, but then will immediately drop. Yours may not be opening all the way. My old won was stuck half way open.

[Guest BobSpin]

No parts from 1963 in their original condition was used in the rebuild. It is all brand new or it has been rebuilt. The thermostat is brand new, but it wouldn't be the first time I got a "new" item that didn't work right. I will try replacing it and see what happens. I know my timing is off a bit, which would contribute to the overheating. That needs to be corrected. The mechanic told me yesterday he couldn't get it to time better than 9 degrees. The drive home was sluggish. Since it was a very recent first start, I had it timed the old fashion way, by ear. In my younger more flexible years, I was a hot rod enthusiast and built a few. I had an English Ford with a mild 283 Chevy engine, a 1966 Studebaker Commander with a very wild 327, and an Austin Healey 3000 with a 289 Ford built to Cobra specs. I got pretty good at timing by listening to the engine and then test driving. I had the Avanti at about 20 degrees - which is way too much according to the manual, but it was running pretty good. It has been a lot of years since I was a teenager and built those hot rods and I haven't seen a lot of action between, so 40 years later, I may have forgotten a step or two and missed something. My first thought is that I may have the distributor off a tooth. When I time by ear it runs great, but when the mechanic set it at 9 degrees it was pretty slow. So my thought is to reset the distributor, set the timing with the light according to specs, and check the thermostat.

[unimogjohn]

Bob, you should be at 4 degrees at 650 rpm. Before checking make sure you disconnect and plug the vacuum line.

[pacerman]

You need to ensure that tdc is marked correctly on your balancer. Most balancershave an inner an inner and outer ring separated by a band of rubber. That outer ring can slip relative to the inner ring. Position number one cylinder at TDC using piece of stiff wire inserted through the spark plug hole and confirm TDC on the balancer. If it is not marked correctly, have the balancer rebuilt. Joe

[Guest BobSpin]

Thank you for the suggestions. John I can't get it to run at 4 degrees, so either Joe is right and the balancer has slipped or I am off 1 tooth on the distributor. My next step is to set the engine at TDC and check where the distributor and #1 cylinder wire is. If it's where I think I will find it, I will need to reset the distributor. If not - it will be off to the shop. It has to go back anyway for a new control valve. OUCH! The money keeps draining from my pocket. The one thing that keeps it fun is, now that it is running, it's great to drive down to a hamburger stand and have a bunch of people come over, ask what it is, and then say they can't believe it's a Studebaker.

[Guest BobSpin]

Got a chance to mess around with the timing and setting of the Edelbrock. The engine is now set at 4 degrees and idles well. It was not a tooth off as I thought it would be. Take off from a stoplight seems a bit sluggish, but I can work with that later. It still overheated. Both upper and lower hoses are hot and hard as a rock when this happens. The strangest part of this heating problem is that when I first got the car running a couple of months ago, it got hot but not pegged hot and that was on a 15 mile drive. Now about 3 miles and it's time to stop. My thought at this point is that there is an air pocket in the system I haven't found, the thermostat was bad out of the box, or something dislodged and is now blocking the coolant pathways.

[unimogjohn]

Bob, have you "burped" it with the little petcock on top of the water pump manifold? John

[Guest BobSpin]

I did burp the cooling system through the valve. I got no air through it though, only coolant. Today I decided to experiment and ran it for about 3 miles without the thermostat. When I took the old one out (which was brand new just a few engine starts ago) it was sticking, so I thought that I had found the culprit. Unfortunately, within my 3 mile test I hit just over 200 degrees so I shut it down again. Next set of tests will be compression (better not be here because the engine was just completely rebuilt - all new), replacing the fan clutch even though it seems to be working correctly, and the last test will probably be a trip to a mechanic. I am running out of ideas. A few years back I had an Eagle Premier. Extremely comfortable and pleasurable drive, but it tended to get hot and I couldn't figure out why. One day on Ebay I found a brand new crated engine and the price was irresistible, so I bought it. Had it installed with a new radiator. The engine came with a new water pump. The only part I reused was the transmission, but the darn thing still overheated. Just as in this Avanti, everything else was new. Eventually I gave up on the Eagle - it got too expensive to try and find out what was going on. It's troubling that I now have a car without the computers and smog components and it's doing the same thing.

[unimogjohn]

Bob, you seemed to have looked at the engine side so I would do one more thing before I would recommend that you pull the radiator and have it checked out. When the engine is hot and running shine a flashlight on the lower radiator hose to make sure that it has not collapsed and restricting the flow. This is why so many lower hoses have springs in them.

[Guest BobSpin]

I hate to pull the radiator - it is brand new from Dave T. I have also checked the hoses. The lower hose has a coil in it and when the engine gets hot, the hose gets hard rather than collapse. I just finished running it with the cap off the tank. The water looked like it was flowing ok, so I think the next item is going to be the fan clutch. It's the only part under the hood that isn't new or rebuilt. It seemed to be in pretty good condition (actually looked like it was new) even though it had sat for a couple of decades. I found the power steering pump the same way. It was in a box marked remanufactured and, fortunately, it works perfectly. I am going to buy a new fan clutch and give that a try.

[Guest bofusmosby]

My brother recently had a problem with his truck over heating, and the fan clutch took care of it. He told me that the fan seemed to be pulling a lot of air though the radiator, so I guess it's not easy to tell when the car is running. He hasn't had a problem with it since. I hope that this takes care of yours as well.

[Guest BobSpin]

Well a new fan clutch and a spool valve for the power steering control valve showed up and both have been installed. The fan seems to work great. All of the leaks in the control valve went away and a new one popped up. It's hard to see, but it looks like the hose closest to the starter is leaking. It wasn't before so I guess now that the valve isn't losing all of it's pressure, the fluid had to find a new way out. I am going to have the hose leak taken care of in the next day or so and that should put the car back on the road for a good test of the heating problem. My fingers are crossed that it is gone.

Anyone else have a problem with bolts backing out? The clutch fan bolts were put on with thread lock but they were definitely not torqued when they came off. This isn't the first set of bolts that seem to loosen up even though they were torqued to specs and thread lock was used.

[Guest BobSpin]

Getting to the leaks around the control valve seemed impossible to reach the tubing. I found the answer - NO leaking power steering anymore. For all of you other Avanti nuts who have cut or burned your hands and arms trying to tighten the power steering hoses without removing the control valve, here is the answer - flare nut sockets. I was able to use several extensions and my socket wrench and reach straight down past the exhaust manifold from the top of the car without extra effort and no cuts or burns. Slipped the flare nut socket over the tubing and tightened it down. See the picture. Talk about a saving grace. Unfortunately, the car still tends to run hot. So today I went to the auto parts store and picked up a vacuum gauge (the one in the car doesn't seem to work). With the gauge I was able to fine tune the carburetor and the ignition timing. A ton better. It sat idling in my garage for a half an hour and didn't get above 185. I still don't have proper vacuum since it should be around 15 to 20 (I'm at 14), but what a difference in how it idles and no high temps. I will test drive it tomorrow to see if the temperature fairy really worked her magic. I did manage a trip to a local park for a classic car show/picnic. Kind of nice being the only Avanti running around this area - so many people don't know a Studebaker when they see one.

Edited September 19, 2011 by BobSpin
Changed sentence. (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Bob, the Avanti looks great. You should be very proud of her. Great job!

I noticed one thing in the engine bay. The throttle bar should be under the flat bar by the firewall. The manual says that it is important to properly adjust the transmission. Here are a couple of pics.

[Guest BobSpin]

John, I apparently grabbed an older picture when I uploaded the latest ones because, at your suggestion I corrected that error a while back.

When success hits it really makes you feel good. I'm going to my garage and throw my timing light out. Using the vacuum gauge I was able to set my Edelbrock carburetor and the timing of the engine. While not yet perfect (I think I have a pinpoint vacuum leak somewhere) the difference is night and day. I just returned from a 10 mile drive and the temp gauge didn't move off 180. Man it feels good to win one.

[Guest BobSpin]

Engine issues are now a thing of the past. I have driven the Avanti several times with a lot of stop and go traffic and the temp is pegged at 180. I can now move on to other things. Next on the list is to run down the reason the horns and the passenger power window doesn't work. Power seems to be there, but nothing. I am also going to have to rebuild the windshield wiper motor. I looked at the ones on eBay and it looks cheaper to rebuild my own.

My car has the turquoise interior and I finally found someone that claims they have the salt and pepper turquoise carpet. New carpet is near the top of the list. A sample is supposed to be on the way so I can make sure it is correct for the car. There is a classic car swap meet coming to my area and I plan to be there. Kind of rare in these parts of the woods, so I can't pass up the opportunity to maybe find a part.

[unimogjohn]

Bob, great progress on sorting things out. Soon you will not have anything to do and will get depressed. On the horn and before you decide to take off the wheel, just check the little relay that is beside the solenoid. When you press the horn arms on the steering wheel you should have power coming to that relay. If you decided to check the steering wheel you have to use a puller to get it off, and it will come off with a pop for sure. Keep the reports coming.