My next project? 1921 Packard Coupe.

[oldcar]

Hi Chris

I am going to replace the shaft as it is badly rust pitted under the seal. I have used the graphite impregnated string in two or three Dodge 4 pumps with good results and intend to try it again in the Packard. Once it settles down I believe that it can be a quite satisfactory solution to the problem. The main problem with the early sealing material usually comes from worn or rusted shafts.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

As the old saying goes "All work & no play makes jack a dull boy".

I have taken a moment off working on the Packard for some "play".

Remember some time ago I talked about a Dead-easy Tire Pump.

Having found a "crank-shaft" and collected the "cylinders" from the platers the other day I decided to have a day off and put it back together.

Here is the finished pump

[oldcar]

Oh boy! are those Packard gear-boxes heavy or am I just growing old. I have had to rig up my one ton chain hoist to lift the thing. Now with heavy rain and near zero © temperatures it is not the time to be painting even gearboxes. The half I painted a day ago is still tacky so I cannot turn it over to paint the other side.

While I am waiting for the weather to improve I will make a start on sorting out the head lamps at least I can do those inside in comfort.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

The engine bits including the new aluminium pistons were delivered this afternoon. Now I can start to clean everything and start re-assembly.

[oldcar]

Earle

I have a set of six second hand original c/i pistons excess to requirement if they are of any use to you.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi All

My absence for the last two or three days simply indicates that having almost recovered from CRB's $10,000 bill, I am busy out in the shed, slowly and very carefully re-assembling the engine. Having said that it is going together very nicely, while possibly somewhat expensive they have done a brilliant job in rescuing the crank shaft and bottom-end. Many people would have just said "too hard" and simply sent it to the scrap man.

Right now I am busy polishing the contents of a box of stainless steel, 1/4 UNF bolts 1/2 an inch long to hold the side water gallery onto the block. It all takes time....

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

More progress today but every little detail takes time. I know that I am not saying anything new to many experienced restorers but with the Packard there is almost nothing that has appears to have received any constructive work in the last 85-90 years. For instance I doubt that the tappets had been adjusted since the car left the factory in 1923. When it last ran it must have sounded horrible. The ends of the valve stems had dug little craters for themselves into the heads of the adjusting screws.The depth of the indentations would have made it impossible to use a feeler gauge to measure the clearance. Below is a photograph two tappets, one as found and the other after refacing head of the adjusting screw. It is polished to a mirror finish, that is the reflected grain in the piece of wood they are on not scratches in the finish.

Ok it only takes twenty to thirty minutes to strip out each screw, grind down the head and bring it back to an acceptable finish then re-assemble it into the crankcase. There are twelve in the six cylinder engine taking the best part of six hours to complete this relatively minor task.

The good news is that they are all finished and last thing this afternoon I could lower the cylinder block onto the crankcase and bolt it down. Tomorrow I hope to be able to turn the motor over (upside down) so I can torque up the main bearing nuts and think about fitting the new pistons to the conrods.

Hopefully I will have some more meaningful photographs for you then.

Bernie J.

Edited May 20, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Friartuck]

Bernie, Would be interested in how-what you use for gasket and sealer between the Aluminum crankcase and the iron cylinder block. Include brands/part numbers where possible.

[oldcar]

Hello Chris

The very complete and comprehensive Engine Gasket kit I obtained from Olsons included a die cut "cylinder base" gasket made, their list tells me, from Victorite. A heavy black paper. Olsons have a website I think that olsongaskets.com should find them.

Bernie J.

Edited May 20, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hello Again

This may help.

[West Peterson]

Bernie

I sent an e-mail to you the other day. Did you get it?

[Friartuck]

Bernie, I'm more interested in what sealer you will use. The differance between alum and cast metals sometimes has oil leaks, so I'm interested in what sealer products that have been proven to avoid this problem. In past I have used a DOW product called Sealastic with mixed results.

[oldcar]

Hi Chris

Sorry about the confusion.

I am old fashioned enough to believe that the gasket should do its job if the joint is bolted together to the correct torque. Having said that I do use Permatex Aviation Form-a-gasket on just one side of the paper gasket (Aluminium side in this case) Mainly to stop the gasket from "creeping" during assembly. This also means that if necessary the joint can be dismantled without damaging the gasket.

In the Lagonda Rapier's tool bag I carry a tube of Hi-Temp RTV Silicone "Gasket maker" for emergency repairs. By co-incidence this is also a Permatex product. Both packs tell me that they are made in USA. you can find them at Permatex - Adhesive & Sealant Solutions...Made for the Professional

Note: I have no connection, interest or share holding with the company, I just find their products tend to do what I want them to do.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hello Again

I had hoped to have some photos of the assembled engine to show you by now but every thing I have to do seems to be taking twice as long as I had anticipated. There are probably several reasons (excuses) for this. First, our Autumn (Fall) has suddenly turned into winter.

Then I managed to break an oil ring (*##*!) and am waiting on a replacement to come from Interstate. At least this has given me time to adjust all the tappets. This is much easier to do with the motor on its side. Not a job I would relish doing with the engine installed in the chassis working over the top of shiny newly painted front fender. Now I have finally decided to have the 23 original head nuts nickel plated so I have spent much of this afternoon linishing them and giving them a quick polish. Until I fit that last piston I cannot finish off installing the oil pump and oil feed pipe prior to fitting the oil pan. Tomorrow perhaps?

Bernie j.

[oldcar]

At last some progress

[Ozstatman]

Looking good Bernie!

[oldcar]

Thanks Mal

The replacement oil ring arrived in the mail this afternoon. The postage cost more than the ring! The final piston is now in and all the B-Es torqued up, the oil pump and oil feed pipes installed ready for the oil pan (sump) to go on tomorrow am. Then the timing chain and front cover. It will be nice to have the motor all buttoned up before I start on the next item on the list.....

Bernie J.

[West Peterson]

Bernie

I don't remember if you need a taillight or not. Is this one correct for your car?

[oldcar]

Hello West

Again I am sorry but I simply do not know. Remember, I am new to Packards and the learning curve is quite steep. The one that came with my car is quite obviously not the original. It is a simple round Stop-Tail lamp and is from the wrong period (chrome). I had intended to have the rim re-plated (nickel) but that only partially solves the problem.

I am somewhat puzzled by the Green and White lenses on your lamp can you please explain their purpose. Certainly as it is genuine Packard I could be interested in buying if you are selling. Next question; do you have two?

Below are photographs of the lamp that came with my car. The multiple attachment options (see rear) would suggest that it is an after-market replacement. Perhaps someone can identify it?

Bernie J.

Edited May 26, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[West Peterson]

Bernie

I don't know much about Packards of this era. I just found this one at the Museum, and the tag says 1921-23, New Old Stock. It's quite expensive, unfortunately. $500.

[oldcar]

Thanks West

I will send you a private e-mail re the tail lamp.

Meanwhile I am proceeding with the engine albeit slowly today I have been shopping with Helen Our regular Friday morning date. About the only time that she can persuade me to come out of the shed. This afternoon I "just had' to finish off a report on Vintage "happenings down-under" for the Automobile Mag in the UK, Readers of this magazine probably skip over much of my stuff.

Attached are some photographs of the engine progress. The gaping hole in the right side of the timing chain case is where the plug, that my pet poltergeist hidden somewhere in the shed, goes. The third photograph shows the top of one of the "high compression" pistons. The crown projects approx 3/16 inch above the top of the bore.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Anyone who has done a "proper" restoration will understand where the money goes. For example here is just one "shopping list" that I found in my jean's pocket, the one with the hole in it!

The problem is that I hate using old , rounded, stripped and rusty nuts and bolts.

Bernie J.

Edited May 27, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[oldcar]

If any of the purists out there would like them I have several 1 Gallon (5 litre) oil containers full of "original" nuts, bolts & washers. All you have to do is collect them.

Re the above; I have used the original cylinder head nuts as they are a size and pitch no longer commercially available. As luck would have it they are the same size etc as those used on the Dixie Flyer so with some from the spare Herschell Spillman engines I have come up with 23 that cleaned up sufficiently to use. Most of the original nuts on the Packard engine looked as though they had never seen a spanner but two or three looked as though a rat had been nibbling at them.

Bernie J.

Edited May 28, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[Ozstatman]

Bernie,

Here's a few pic's of the rear and taillight of DavidMc's '22 Sport Tourer. Doing this because the taillight West has on offer is different. Although throwing these pic's in will probably muddy the waters more than anything. But a question Bernie. If I remember there was some conjecture early in the piece as to what year Packard it is. Was this resolved and is the Packard a '21 as the title of the Blog indicates?

Edited May 29, 2011 by Ozstatman
Spelling correction (see edit history)

[oldcar]

Hi Mal

Very early in this thread I explained that my car is actually 1923. It was simply my ignorance in all things Packard that caused this misunderstanding. Re the Taillamp West has told me via e-mail that Friatuck had identified that particular light as coming from a 1927-9 model possibly usually fitted to export cars going to Europe. If someone can explain how to alter the title I would be very happy to do so. Any connoisseur of fine wines will tell you that in France 1923 was a very good year for Reds.

It seems that my "original" Divided round tail lamp should be more than acceptable provided that I re-plate the rim nickel.

Bernie J.

[Ozstatman]

Thanks Bernie, I'll keep that in mind.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Ozstatman (see edit history)

[DavidMc]

Bernie, That single round red tail light on my First Series was on the car "as found" and is to the best of my knowledge correct. Remember that the First Series does not have a stop light.

We are on the second last day of the Fougeres Rally having a great time.

David

[oldcar]

Hi David

My car does have what I believe is an original stoplight switch and the necessary wiring appears to be part of the original loom.

Hope that your visit to France continues to be enjoyable. Do please say "G'day" to Patrick for us.

Bernie J.

[Grandpa]

1921 Packard factory photo that shows the taillight.

Grandpa

[Grandpa]

Another 1921 factory picture.

Grandpa

[keiser31]

Looks like the second factory photo (drawing) has the Packard radiator contour to the top of the taillight.

[oldcar]

Having done some more research neither the Wiring diagram in the 1922 Single Six Information book or the 1923 "Facts about" book make any mention of a Stop light. None the less in the interest of road safety I will be including a working stop lamp when I come to do the electrical work. RE keiser31's illustration. I feel that this more likely to be a re-touched photograph. Either way, I would think the chances of finding one of those tail lights to be fairly remote. I would be pleased to hear from anyone with one surplus to their requirements. Perhaps West's contacts at the Packard Museum would know of one.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

As I progressively work my way through the engine I have now reached the distributor. Can any of the good people out there with far more knowledge and experience than me suggest a possible source for a replacement distributor cap and rotor.

Thank you

Bernie J.

[Friartuck]

Bernie, An update on the tail light. The pictures offerred by Grandpa are correct only for 1st series six. Your tail light pictured with a horizontal oriented oval running light lens is for 2nd series only. The parts book shows it as part number 130000. The correct light for 3rd series six is a round light like the 2nd series, only the red running lens is round/cone shaped, not oval. That has part numbers of 135115 or 133404. 4th and 5th series use a three light arrangement like West posted earlier. Attached is a faithful recreation of the C.M. Hall Logo that would have been engraved on the top surface of the tail light bucket.

[oldcar]

Hi Friartuck

Many thanks for the up-date & info. To the best of my knowledge my car is 1st Series (Mid 1923) Chassis Number *U28317* Perhaps someone can give me a precise date.

The lamp I have is plainly not original but until something better turns up I currently have it apart. The rim is at the platers having the chrome stripped off and new nickel plating. The body has been stripped and is currently in primer. I have done away with the multi choice mounting bracket and will have two bolt attachment to the original fitting. The two glasses (main [red] & number plate [clear]) have been washed and carefully wrapped in tissue.

Bernie j.

Edited June 1, 2011 by oldcar (see edit history)

[unimogjohn]

Bernie, I have had great success with NOS Early Ignition 1900 to 1950. Not inexpensive, but he seems to have lots of stuff for the real old iron. Has more than just caps and rotors, to include condensers, gears, points, bushings, coils, brushes, resistance units, etc. The more you buy, the better deal you can get, errrr sometimes.

No web address, but here is his contact information.

C. Bouteiller

427 Monterey Road

Gt. Barrington, Mass. 011230

Telephone home: 413-243-4496

Telephone shop: 413-528-2815

[oldcar]

Hello John

Many thanks for the info. I will give them a call after I work out the time difference.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

Hi again Friartuck

The best explanation I can think of is that my stop/tail light was added when the stop light switch was installed either by the dealer or an early owner. It would certainly help if I knew something (anything) about the cars early history.

Bernie J.

[oldcar]

One quick thought regarding the tail light glass. This is one piece and rather than a stencil for the word STOP, this is actually cast into the glass so the entire window is lit when the globe is illuminated rather that just the STOP. Most of the other lamps that I have looked at rely on the stencil to create the word and in doing so mask out the rest of the glass.

Bernie

[oldcar]

Finally I have the cylinder head in place and this brings me to the question of spark plug leads. I want to replace the existing black plastic covered leads with the correct cotton covered hi-tension cable. The question is what colour? Yellow with a colour trace or black? Normally I would use the yellow but looking at photographs of other peoples engines they appear to have used black. Does anyone know what would have been used originally?

Bernie J.