Walt Meyer Auto Museum?

[Ivan Saxton]

I was given a copy of the most admirable catalogue for the auction of Alex Kennedy Miller's collection in Vermont by an associate of the auction company.   I am sure there was a Henderson car in that auction, which indicates that AKM had a high opinion of it.   In 1980 , after Auburn,  I visited Ernie and Ruth Toth;  before I travelled to Springfield  Vermont to accompany Morris and Libby Burrows on the Glidden in their 1914 Mercer 35-O roadster.  Morris' opinion of AKM was the square root of minus one, and there was no way he would assist or encourage me to visit him.  To use our bush metaphor, if you shook hands with him you might need to count your fingers.  By contrast, Stutz people like Paul Freehill and Ernie Toth seemed to have reasonable regard and working relationship with him.   Ernie advised taking a container of icecream if I had the opportunity to visit him, because he was very partial to that.    AK was obviously a very knowledgible and versatile person.  Imagine repairing fuselage damage  of a downed aeroplane during the war to fly it home in winter by patching the hole(s)? with canvass and water.  I am eccentric enough myself that I would have enjoyed meeting him; but I never had the chance.      In relation to your car with a Rochester Duesenberg engine,  I had a problem with rust pitting of the water pump shaft of my Roamer, even though the car has only ever done 14,000 miles.    You lose the timing when you have to do anything about that.   I rebuild that with a Metco  grindable stainless steel sprayed metal coating.   I have explained this in technical posts in the past.  There is also a problem with the stub water connection into the cylinder block.  It is very thin wall thickness,  and you cannot see how it is made and fitted.   It is threaded on a slight taper.  I machined a new one out of a free- machining grade bar stock, which has sulphur content.    To cheat the taper fit of the thread I cut it parallel the correct pitch, then shaved it to correct taper  by running it in the lathe and tapering the thread with a thread file , hand-held, with cutting lube. 

[twin6]

I don't know if this is the one Bob recalls in or near Ridgefield, CT years ago, but this is what Miller's Henderson looked like the year after the auction, on display at Bennington, VT.  I believe it was the first of all the cars auctioned off, to be up and running and back on the road.

[Dawn Myers Klock]

On 3/3/2012 at 5:08 PM, doug satterlee said:

greetings:

the bridgewater auto museum was started just after the second world war by walt myers, howard fenton, frank mumbalo and a few others. the idea was not to present cars in brand new like condition but instead to just save those that hadn't been scrapped during the war effort. cars were found in barns, garages, wood lots and where ever they could be found. walt would take them in and try to make them "look good" so people would be able to see them. the cars were not restored as we think of it. there was a case touring that had sat behind a barn here in bridgewater. when walt got the car there were rust holes in the splash aprons and other areas. his solution was to take cardboard and cover the back side of the holes, then fill the holes with plaster of paris. it was easy to work with and at a distance who would know. of course you didn't want to get the car wet. if parts were missing that would make the car look incomplete walt wasn't above making the part out of wood and painting it to look right. the admission to the museum was one dollar, 96 cents to walt and 4 cents to the state. the admission was good for the whole season. as you can see walt wasn't in it for the money. he loved to talk with folks and talk he could do. no matter how many times i went to the museum there was always something that i hadn't seen before. walt never had much money so cars had to be cheap if walt was to buy them. he told me of a car that he went to look at that was rope driven. it was all there but the folks wanted $50 for it and walt felt that was to much so he passed on it. there were many cars in the museum that were stored there by their owners. when walt became ill and couldn't run the museum any more his wife ran it one summer and she raised the price to $2 and walt was furious over that. when walt died the cars were sold and went all over the place. there was no auction only private cash sales. the building is still standing and is now a bar. i can't really recall your car but you would have to realize that the cars were packed in as tight as they could be. in some parts of the building the cars were two and three deep behind chicken wire so visibility wasn't always the best. there are those who would criticize the way that the museum was run and the cars maintained but the fact is that walt was saving these cars at a time when most were just junking them or letting them rot down in the back somewhere. i'm sure that if it hadn't been for walt and guys like him folks like you and i wouldn't have the cars that they we love today. i hope this gives you a little idea of where your car spent part of its life. doug

My dad was Walter Myers and Doug has posted exactly how the museum came into existence and my dad’s feelings towards old cars.  The only thing that I would correct is that I ran the business for the summer before his death.  ( and I was the one who raised the admission price😂) I ran it for the one summer when I was off from college. My dad had hoped that I would take over the business. 

[Dawn Myers Klock]

Just came across this discussion, I am the daughter of Walter Myers who owned the Auto Museum in Bridgewater, NY.  I worked many summers with my dad at the museum.  I am enjoying all of the pics of the cars that he had.  Love seeing what had happened to them.  The Mora was one of my favorites.  My dad died on February 9, 1989. His collection was then sold .

[Oldtruckbloke]

Hi folks

 

I apologise for a late thread revival, but it appears as if I have been working on a car (a Franklin) from this collection. It was sold as a Model C, and came over to England (the old one....).

 

Does anyone recognise it?

[Walt G]

We will have to guess that it is a 4 cylinder, a photo of the motor would help us to identify clearer what you have. My comment is that the brass polished front piece on the end of the hood is perhaps larger in style/design then the other Franklins of that era - the models G,D, and H. Also the Franklin script is later, my guess of the 1930-32 era , the brass era script although looking the same was much larger. I did visit the museum many times while attending the annual Franklin Club week long gathering they called a "trek".

If you can look and locate any numbers to add to the information it will be easier to identify - numbers cast into the block etc. The photos you provide are not going to get you a lot of information you seek , you need to provide more so we can help more.................. Headlamp lens are incorrect.

[Oldtruckbloke]

44 minutes ago, Walt G said:

We will have to guess that it is a 4 cylinder, a photo of the motor would help us to identify clearer what you have. My comment is that the brass polished front piece on the end of the hood is perhaps larger in style/design then the other Franklins of that era - the models G,D, and H. Also the Franklin script is later, my guess of the 1930-32 era , the brass era script although looking the same was much larger. I did visit the museum many times while attending the annual Franklin Club week long gathering they called a "trek".

If you can look and locate any numbers to add to the information it will be easier to identify - numbers cast into the block etc. The photos you provide are not going to get you a lot of information you seek , you need to provide more so we can help more.................. Headlamp lens are incorrect.

More pictures shortly - for now good spot on the headlights - the lenses are wrong way around - they say "made in USA" but you have to be inside the headlight to read it!  The  picture shows how it was in the museum. I need to make the file size smaller for others ads posting here has  size limit!

[Oldtruckbloke]

[Oldtruckbloke]

[Oldtruckbloke]

[Walt G]

shadow makes it hard to read engine numbers.

Headlamp glass is totally wrong, should be flat glass with no curve and perhaps vertical pieces - not just one piece lens. Have photos of that era but no time to do specific research for a while, I am an active author. Like to help but I have a private collection not a public one although there are people here on the forums that do not take that into consideration.

Edited June 21 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Oldtruckbloke]

Engine number is 149. Interesting what you say about headlamp glass, those are just the lights that came with the car!

[wayne sheldon]

The headlamp lenses appear to be "Violet Ray" lenses. They were made in a variety of sizes, and sold in the early 1920s. The most common size fit the model T Ford headlamps. However, a few larger and smaller sizes were also available. They do not belong on an automobile from around 1910.

 

 

That is quite a change from the "before" in the museum and the "now" in your shop! It is almost hard to believe it could be the same car, although it does appear to be so.

It looks I think much better now, looking like a "barrel hood" Franklin should. Do you know much about the backstory for the car? It looks pretty messed up in the "before" photo. Do you know who made some corrections? Or is it a total mystery?

[Walt G]

The cars in that museum had been worked on over the years and it was an era to make a car complete not necessarily authentic to the year they were built in. I visited it often when it was open, and the cars on display looked great to the general public who visited but to anyone who collected pre war cars it was evident that later items were added to make the cars look complete. I am not criticizing the owner of the museum nor the cars, that was the way things were done in that era when total originality was not the highest point for display, close enough , was. People in the Franklin Club in that era that would visit would always look at that car with a wary eye.

Edited June 22 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Olympic33]

The earliest that engine could be is 1905 as it does not have atmospheric intake valves.  The number is likely as asset tag.  All numbers were stamped on the top of the engine base.  I would be curious to know if you can find that number.  It should be four digits.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

Franklin Club Registrar

[Oldtruckbloke]

On 6/22/2024 at 2:12 PM, Olympic33 said:

The earliest that engine could be is 1905 as it does not have atmospheric intake valves.  The number is likely as asset tag.  All numbers were stamped on the top of the engine base.  I would be curious to know if you can find that number.  It should be four digits.

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

Franklin Club Registrar

Will take a really good look in the morning. That tag is confusing as it has the letters "EN" and "NO" before and after the number.

[Oldtruckbloke]

On 6/22/2024 at 8:46 AM, wayne sheldon said:

The headlamp lenses appear to be "Violet Ray" lenses. They were made in a variety of sizes, and sold in the early 1920s. The most common size fit the model T Ford headlamps. However, a few larger and smaller sizes were also available. They do not belong on an automobile from around 1910.

 

 

That is quite a change from the "before" in the museum and the "now" in your shop! It is almost hard to believe it could be the same car, although it does appear to be so.

It looks I think much better now, looking like a "barrel hood" Franklin should. Do you know much about the backstory for the car? It looks pretty messed up in the "before" photo. Do you know who made some corrections? Or is it a total mystery?

It came to me as a non runner, and pretty much how it came out of the museum in the early 1990s, where it had been sold and exported as a 1905 Model C. Although at the time I believe it was white. It changed hands to the current owner some time later, then he commissioned me to make it run and make it more like a Franklin. To do that I scaled the tinwork from the images in the 1905/06. Subsequently that engine number, and the absence of the bevel drive cooling fan perplexed both the owner and myself, if we are to believe that number than it indicates an earlier engine! It had been retrofitted with a later Carb (Stromberg No3) and a later Unisparker distributor system. 

 

I am not surprised folks wonder if it really is a Franklin. But if it isnt, then what is it?

[Oldtruckbloke]

Oh and the other thing we did was provide it with a sneaky electric start system, just to make it more useable. Its a neat little job using a dynastarter, a combined starter motor and dynamo running a permanent belt drive onto a pulley mounted on the clutch housing. This works really well!

[Walt G]

19 hours ago, Oldtruckbloke said:

I am not surprised folks wonder if it really is a Franklin. But if it isnt, then what is it?

Reread my first sentence in my comment made on Saturday. When the car was sold and went to England I had correspondence with the owner and whomever was working on it as to what it was. Have nothing more to add to the story , what is being stated here has been said before and I am sure will be repeated. Yes the new hood area looks more like a Franklin but that front polished area is not correct so far as scale and design. I will comment no further.

[StanleyRegister]

It can be surprisingly challenging for modern fabricators to accurately reproduce the brass when building a front shell.  Here's a comparison between this hood and some authentic 1906 hoods.  The result is the typical one - the brass on the modern face is wider that that of the authentic item.  In this case, the width varies a little around the circle, but it's all at least twice the width of the actual Franklin product.  The screen resembles expanded-metal plaster lath, rather than the Franklin large hexagon pattern, but that doesn't contribute as much to the jarring visual as the brass does.

[Oldtruckbloke]

1 hour ago, StanleyRegister said:

It can be surprisingly challenging for modern fabricators to accurately reproduce the brass when building a front shell.  Here's a comparison between this hood and some authentic 1906 hoods.  The result is the typical one - the brass on the modern face is wider that that of the authentic item.  In this case, the width varies a little around the circle, but it's all at least twice the width of the actual Franklin product.  The screen resembles expanded-metal plaster lath, rather than the Franklin large hexagon pattern, but that doesn't contribute as much to the jarring visual as the brass does.

Thank you. The front brass was "scaled" from the illustrations in the parts lists, and I get where you are coming from. That said, it would be straightforward to rework. I also looked into the original construction of the mesh, as you say  what is there is the correct dimension xpm (expanded metal mesh) whereas it seems the original was a whole  bunch of wavy strips either sweated or soldered together to form the diamond shapes (easier to draw than to explain! The lower chins are interesting as they all vary a little. On the one I did the shape of the chin was determined by the shape of the undergrad, which was, in its turn  determined by the profile of the engine and front fan (mounted in this case directly on the crankshaft)

 

How thick was the brass? 

[Oldtruckbloke]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

Reread my first sentence in my comment made on Saturday. When the car was sold and went to England I had correspondence with the owner and whomever was working on it as to what it was. Have nothing more to add to the story , what is being stated here has been said before and I am sure will be repeated. Yes the new hood area looks more like a Franklin but that front polished area is not correct so far as scale and design. I will comment no further.

You can say whatever thesou like- I will not be insulted in the slightest! (Especially as it isn't my car.....)

 

I have my own theories, but the fact that it was in the museum where it was, the subject of this thread, suggests that it might actually, at least in part, have some sort of interesting beginnings.

[Oldtruckbloke]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:06 PM, Oldtruckbloke said:

 

 

How thick was the brass? 

12 guage