Body to frame shims

[STuTZ693]

The parts manual for my 1925 Stutz 693 Roadster indicates that the body to frame shims are cork shims.

I am wondering if this was a special cork. I removed the shims from two of the 8 body connection points and they look more like piece of battleship linoleum than cork.

What is the proper shimming procedure?

I would appreciate any comments.

[60ch]

Dan, I am sure that others may dissagree but this is what I have learned from experience. Mount the radiator and radiator shell. Set the body on the frame with the body bolts just dropped in their holes without any nuts, and put the hood on the car. The idea is to set the margins of the hood to the cowl and radiator shell first. After these margins are correct you work your way back aligning your doors and door openings. Some cars used rubber shims, yours used cork, Don't stack these pliable shims to obtain the height you need. Use steel shims or even aircraft grade 1/8" plywood to build height and place your cork or rubber cushioning shims between the body and the solid shims. Too much thickness of pliable shims makes it difficult to tighten and maintain thickness. One other thing is to seriously ckeck the frame alignment before you start with the shimming. If the frame has sag or twist you will go crazy trying to keep the margins straight. This is what worked for me. Thanks, Terry

[keiser31]

Dan, I am sure that others may dissagree but this is what I have learned from experience. Mount the radiator and radiator shell. Set the body on the frame with the body bolts just dropped in their holes without any nuts, and put the hood on the car. The idea is to set the margins of the hood to the cowl and radiator shell first. After these margins are correct you work your way back aligning your doors and door openings. Some cars used rubber shims, yours used cork, Don't stack these pliable shims to obtain the height you need. Use steel shims or even aircraft grade 1/8" plywood to build height and place your cork or rubber cushioning shims between the body and the solid shims. Too much thickness of pliable shims makes it difficult to tighten and maintain thickness. One other thing is to seriously ckeck the frame alignment before you start with the shimming. If the frame has sag or twist you will go crazy trying to keep the margins straight. This is what worked for me. Thanks, Terry

That is EXACTLY the way I would approach the body alignment.

[STuTZ693]

Thanks to both on you for the excellent information. I will follow your procedure.

Should I perform the alignment with the wheels on and on the ground or with the frame on jack stands?

I have not removed the body from the frame and do not plan of doing that. All of the wood is in good shape and I only want to replace the body bolts and shims.

The original shims seem to be have been around 5/32" thick and compressed over time to less than 3/32. There are two shims at each of the 8 mounting points. The wooden cross member under the seat is resting on the frame cross member in that area. I assume there should be some space under the wooden member.

[keiser31]

As far as frame alignment...if you can find a nice, level spot and if you are going to raise the car to check alignment, you can measure it out like the body shop guys do. Try and be sure that all four corners of the frame are level. It may take two people to do the following steps. Measure from corner to diagonal corner. Then measure opposite corners from one another. If they measure the same, you are in good shape. If they don't, start looking for kinks and slight bends in the frame rails and cross members. It will be tough to do with the body on, but from underneath, you should be able to get most of the measurements. If you can get lucky, sometimes shop manuals have frame measurements.

[jdome]

I don't know what the "cork" shim material was in the 20's but in the teens some of the body mounts and axle rebounds were made of rubber with cork saw dust mixture. I don't know of any source for this material today. I would say a hard rubber would be a good substitute.

[Friartuck]

Suggest using woven brown fiber body cushion material from Restoration Supply Company, page 43 of their catalog RSC Its 1/8 inch thick and making multiple layers is easy. This is the material used by many marques for this very application. I feel that cork will be too soft, the body will sink, and the body will go out of alignment over time. Also, it is possible to put one shim under the radiator mounting bolts between the it and the chassis to prevent squeeking. So start with one shim under the radiator and align the firewall and hood as descibed by others.

[1929Chrysler]

Was there some type of perfected method they had in assembling these bodies in line in the factory? Seems like aligning these bodies today is a HUGE deal. However, the thousands and thousands of cars produced way back in the day seemed to have gone together fairly nicely with near perfect alignment. Am I missing something?

Dan

[Friartuck]

Judging from the original photos on how bodies were assembled using special jigs, the tolerances for bodies were reasonably good for their day. They probably mounted the body with four or five shims per mounting bolt and from there, adjusted accordingly, either adding or removing one at a time. In the case of Lincoln, production was about sixteen cars per day.