Friction Car Drive-Ability

[Guest VeloMan]

I'm considering purchasing a friction-drive car (a Metz) as an entry into the brass era. Not having driven or worked on a friction-drive vehicle before, I was wondering if anyone could inform me as to their driveabiltity, etc. I know quite a few cars used this system, including Sears and Cartercar, and they look rather straightforward to maintain.

Thanks,

Phil

PA

[Mark Shaw]

Phil,

Look up Frank Hurley in the HCCA. He has a 2 cylinder CarterCar with friction drive that keeps up with the bigger brass cars. Some benefitts are: no shifting, all speeds in forward and reverse, and no mechanical efficiency loss through gear reductions. The friction (paper) material is redily available and seems to wear better than clutch materials.....

[F&J]

I had a 13 Metz Special and a 12 roadster. I never did find the correct material to make the disc grab enough. That was pre-internet and I am sure the correct material is available.

What year Metz? The early ones had twin chain drive, later ones had single.

The motor is a clone of a model T ford and is good. Mine were 22hp. Later was same appearance but 25hp

I really thought they were interesting cars. The Specail was just that; a special low priced model painted a reddish orange.

The 12 was real cool. The wheels were set up so you could quickly reverse them inside out. What that did was let you run in the narrow wagon rutted roads down south, or run in wider ruts in the northern states. That feature was gone by 1913.

On the disc drive: My early cars used a 1/4" thick aluminum plate drive disc bolted to wooden spokes on the back to give it strength. I bought that car as a basket case and when I saw that spoked plate with the driveshaft attached, I honestly told the seller that I thought it was part of an apple cider press That was the 13, I'm not recalling if the 12 was the same. I believe the later Metz used a different drive disc, I think cast.

Back then I did talk to a woman in her late 80s. She drove her fathers 17 Metz over to the next state when the car was their only car. She said it went fine

[Guest VeloMan]

It's a Metz 22 from 1913 or '14. I asked a friend if he was familiar with friction drive vehicles. He replied that his Snapper riding mower has it. There is a company that will re-do the friction wheels, but I've heard of people using anything from neoprene gasket material to brake lining. The car I'm considering has leather. Apparently, every maker used the combination of aluminum and fiberboard for the drive.

Phil

[keiser31]

A friend of mine whose grandfather used to sell Cartercars owns two of them. One is a 1913 and the other a 1914, I believe. I was given a demonstration and I can tell you that these are the simplest and most effective transmissions I have ever seen. So few moving parts and such dependability. These cars were demonstrated going up very steep stairs and other inclines by the salesmen. There is some sort of brake lining material on the drive wheel and the flywheel is a very smooth disc that the drive wheel rides against. Very simple and very cool.

[Rusty_OToole]

Supposedly they worked fine with the low powered light weight cars they were used on. A very simple and ingenious transmission system.

Has anyone tried oil tempered masonite for the friction drive? It should be as good as or better than the compressed paper they used to use.

A friend of mine relined the clutch on his 1937 Indian 4 with masonite. It worked perfect.

[Guest VeloMan]

I did read of a fellow who used Masonite for the friction wheel. He said it worked well. You can still get fiberboard, however, and that seems stronger than Masonite to me.

Phil

[Steve Braverman]

My father found a source for the proper friction disk for his Sears. The system works fine when everything is in adjustment. It's simplicity in action.

[Guest VeloMan]

Is your father's source for the friction wheel Paper Pulleys, Inc. in Columbia, TN, Steve? This looks like one of those firms from another time:

"We also make a wide variety of special pulleys and friction products. These include idler pulleys, flanged pulleys, step pulleys, and friction wheels for antique cars.

We have made friction wheels for the following makes of antique cars: Metz, Carter Car, Guery & Bourguinon, Sears, Trumbull, and Orient Buckboard."

Apparently, this type of pulley has numerous uses on farm and factory equipment.

Phil

[Steve Braverman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VeloMan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is your father's source for the friction wheel Paper Pulleys, Inc. in Columbia, TN, Steve? This looks like one of those firms from another time.</div></div>

Yes it is. The wheel has been sitting in a box for a while now. It's another one of those projects I haven't gotten to yet. I will say this, after I reinstalled the engine in the Sears, the transmission tries to jump back to neutral in the lower speeds. I think the engine might not be perfectly straight in the frame. There's not really any engine mounting adjustments that I can see. There are adjustments on the clutch, and they're both all the way in. The wheel slips under heavy load. It's only a problem when trying to drive onto the trailer or in similar situations.

[Guest EMF-Owner]

Steve,

the adjustment to cure your problem is with the rear engine hangers. As you suspected, the problem has to do with the angle of the flywheel to the friction drive wheel. By raising or lowering the rear of the motor, you can correct this. If the shifting lever moved forward, you move the engine one way, and if the lever moves backward, you move it the other. I do not remember which way is which. It says in the manual for the car.

I hope this helps.

John

[Guest VeloMan]

Well, I got the 1913 Metz! It's in quite good mostly-original condition (original upholstery, too). Hopefully, I can get it going and then maybe later restore it more fully! I was pleased to find quite a lot of literarture at the AACA Library today. I ran up quite a photocopier bill.

Phil

[keiser31]

Have you got a photo of the Metz to post?

[jim43]

I have never seen a snow blower or thrower, the conventional walk behind kind, that hasn't used this drive system. They always seem to work very well under really terrible weather conditions. I have had most every thing else fail on these machines, but never the friction drive. I would try to duplicate what ever they use on on these snow blowers for the drive material. Jim43

[Guest VeloMan]

Here's a photo of the Metz. The hood is off to the right, but in good shape, and the headlamps and acetylene generator are on the floor next to the car. It has no top or wind shield, so I will be copying them from someone else's car!

Phil