Firewall ID build plates: Mclaughlin vs Buick

[DBT]

Hi,

My firewall id tag has long gone and so I was considering replacing the missing tag with a replica. Does anyone make these and how different are the Mclaughlin tags from the standard Buick one?

Also I believe I am ok on the numbers needed for the Style, Trim and Paint codes but can I assume the Body number is the last three numbers of the full body number? Year is 1938 and the car is my 90L.

[Engine: 3418109 and Body 149330102]

Many Thanks

[Mark Shaw]

David,

My firewall data plate was also missing when I bought my 38 last year. It seems that the aftermarket heater was installed where the water tubes came through the firewall.

Please advise if and when you find a vendor that makes reproductions.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Ewing has a '38 40 series McLaughlin Buick - I'll make sure he sees this thread.

[1939_Buick]

Tags from a 1939 Series 40's Would guess 1938 are similar

Top: Canadian – Lower Fisher USA

[Guest ewing]

I have a 38 McLaughlin but I will have to wait till spring to take a picture of the data plate.

I think in my spare parts box I have a data plate from a 38 I took off of a parts car.... I will look for it.

If I can find it I'll take a picture. and, if someone can use it, I'd give the spare away.

[Guest ewing]

I braved the cold garage, and found the spare firewall plate.

It is for a McLaughlin Buick.

It is very similar to the one pictured in a post above .

A few subtle differences.

The Model # is shown similar to what is on my 38.

Model 8 - 44 - 19

Serial 844192251 [ note the first 5 numbers reflect the model #]

I also have a US data plate from another parts car.

One was a self shifting transmission and I am not sure which was which now.

The US car plate has MOD. with 41 hand punched in and in the top right corner a 6 hand punched in to the plate. Maybe Dave Corbin can tell what that signifies. Would that be the self shifter code?

I thought the Canadian car was the self shifter, but my memory could be wrong.

I knew there was a good reason to save these for 30 + years.

I will post pictures later ( off to work....)

[Guest 39convertible]

Hi David

look here http://www.datatags.com/

he might help you.

it isn´t for free but the price is acceptable.

i ask from my ´39.

body tag for ´39 is $225 and the frame tag $125.

hope this helps

Regards Janne

´39 66c

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear John:

I was looking at your post and the comment about the "6" stamped into the data plate, so I went out to the garage and looked at my self-shifter model 48 2-door. No "6' in that data plate, so I'm as lost as you are.

I've seen a self-shifter that was built at Southgate, so it wouldn't be surprising that McLaughlin may have built some self-shifters too

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Grandpa]

All,

When a number "6" is hand stamped on the Fisher data plate, it means that the car left the factory with 6 wheels (the car is equipped with sidemounts).

Grandpa

[Guest ewing]

ok, so that confirms it that the sidemounts ( I took from my parts car) was also the series 44 self shifter. So the US Buick data plate I have is a special, with sidemounts, and the self shifter transmission. I will scan and post it shortly

[Guest ewing]

here is a us car plate with sidemounts and self shifter tranny, and a canadian car tag for comparison

That's a useless size!!... I'll try to repost at a better size.

[Guest ewing]

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Grandpa:

"Learn something new every day is the motto of this website."

As an observation, your comment would probably only be true IF sidemounts are optional. Since they're standard on Roadmasters and Limiteds, there wouldn't be any need for the "6" on those models.

Incidentally, there was a 1939 Special at Hershey about 4 years ago that only had a LEFT sidemount. It had a letter code stamped in. I examined it for about an hour and concluded it was a factory installaion.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear John:

The engine number of 3,418,804 is for an engine built at Flint very near the end of September 1937 for a 1938 car, so I would expect that the Canadian car was built mid to late November 1937.

The USA plate shows us a dual sidemount (see Grandpa's post) Gainsborough Blue (516) with Tan Bedford Cord (400) 4 door Buick Special.

A real SHARP looking car !!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest ewing]

sidemounts and self shifter transmission to boot!

That's the plate from the car I took the self shifter from. The one that is trying to find its way to you. Did Thriller get it moving along towards you?

Those sidemounts are now on my 38 special. Which was also a deep blue with tan interior I believe.

I will take a picture of my 38 data plate ( in a few months when spring arrives).

I'd like to have you confirm / decode my data plate. I think its time for a bit od body work and a new paint job, and I want to get it back to original colors.

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear John:

My computation is that body 40582 for a model 41 would be for a late April 1938 car at Flint.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear John:

No, he still has it. However, he brought it to Seattle but none of my "friends" could get it from there to here. Thriller flew to Flint where I got to meet him, but no tranny yet. I'm gong to Denver,so we'll get connected.

Regards, DaveCorbin

[DBT]

Dear Everyone

Thanks for the feedback..

Its interesting how the McL-B cars don't bother with the model prefix on the engine number - thats certainly consistent with the engine number on my car.. and I thought the authorities had gotten lazy all those years ago when it first registered in Australia...aaah its all coming together..

So here I am trying to back populate a tag.. feeling around abit in the dark so apologies for the questions. The posts above however have been very helpful -especially the scans so thanks guys for going to that effort:

1. For the 90 model in 1938 though they were partly assembled in Flint the tag for a McL-B 90 car would indeed still be a GM Canada tag? No argument right? A GM Canada Tag?

2. The model number goes as like the flint number but with the 3 from 38 dropped off and the model number itself hyphenated?

4. Paint and trim codes are the same codes as used in Flint? My car has black leather for the driver compartment and light brown cord in the rear of the car - trim code is therefore 908?. Outside of the car is black so code ought to be 560?

5. What of the body number - how do I work that out? On my car its registration paper work lists the serial number whereever it asks for body number. So I dont seem to be able to find the body number. Any hope here?

Again sorry for the stream of questions - just trying to be as accurate as I can

Many Thanks

David

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear David:

A couple of points here:

1) The reason the model code doesn't appear on the engine is that Flint doesn't know what the engine is going in. All Flint knows is that GM of Canada wants a certain number of small engines this month along wth some big engines.

2) The cars are not "partially" assembled at Flint. Flint sends engines, transmissions and rear axles. GM of Canada has their own suppliers, who probably are different from Buick's. The McLaughlin/GM of Canada plates are totally diferent fom the USA plates, as the pictures above make very clear.

3) Paint and trim codes are NOT the same between Buick and McLaughlin.

4) On the plate shown, all we can determine is that this tag was on car 2251 for the year and it's the 52nd car of that model. IF someone has a McLaughlin paint and trim chart covering a span of years, I'd like to have a copy.

Post the numbers you have and let's see if we can help !!

Regards, Dave Corbin

[DBT]

Dear David

Thanks for that. As to numbers I don't have many.

[Engine: 3418109 and Body 149330102] and we know its a 90L, with centre divider and incidental seats.

So if I walk through the McL-B tag and make some suggestions based on the car..

Model: an easy one this shd be: 8-49-33?

Serial: This looks just like what I have down as the Body number on the car's papers... so 149330102!

Engine: an easy one 3418109

Body serial: tough.. is it right to say its 102? I dont have a number otherwise to suggest here

Trim: Its Bedford cord for the rear, leather in the front..

Paint: Its black, its an embassy car and its a 90 so one could say its been black all its life.

How is that for a start?

Regards

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveCorbin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dear John:

No, he still has it. However, he brought it to Seattle but none of my "friends" could get it from there to here. Thriller flew to Flint where I got to meet him, but no tranny yet. I'm gong to Denver,so we'll get connected.

Regards, DaveCorbin </div></div>

It's crated up and will be in the back of the truck...so long as you have the means to get it to TX from CO (with respect to size and weight), it should finally make it to its new home.

[1939_Buick]

My New Zealand 1939 model 41's do not have body tags or chassis serial numbers. Same with other Buicks that I have seen in NZ that were assembled from parts by GM Petone, Wellington, NZ [completety knocked down = CKD ?]

Questions for Dave Corbin:

(a) How did GM count CKD kits? - body, chassis, engine, diff etc.

Or are non US assembled cars not counted in the number of cars made for any year. (1939 in my case)

( In the tag in post 4 what does the K mean ? Seen this K in at least 2 tags. The tag in post 4 is from an ebay car. I also have bought an old tag in the USA that a K roughly stamped on it

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear 39:

I can answer some of your questions;

Cars that were shipped as complete CKD packs got counted.

Cars that went to McLaughlin from 1908 to at least 1916 got counted TWICE, once at Buick and once at McLaughlin. In later years, only once and that was by McLaughlin.

I've been working with a man from Russia who is restoring a 1939 Model 81. It has a frame and engine number and I can document which CKD pack it was in and it did get counted at Buick, but has a GM of Europe body tag.

The tag above has a "6" stamped in. See Gandpa's explanation.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[1939_Buick]

Dave

Thanks for the answer's

How were Australian built Buick’s counted ?

USA chassis, running gear & some sheet metal but with GM Holden Australian built bodies ?

Read about the 6 for 6 wheel in post above but wondered what K meant

Did read with much interest the Russian 1939 81 thread, but nothing posted for about 18 months. Is the restoration progressing ? http://forums.aaca.org/ubbthreads.php/topics/352325/7

Hope DBT does not mind us taking his thread off topic. He has a very nice car. Saw it it in Sydney some years ago

[DBT]

Haha, no worries.

1939 Buick [is it '39 for short?] Don't mind at all - enjoying the ride infact. I understand K means simply a special request - something different here. Dave Corbin I think mentions this in earlier posts some months ago.

It would be good though to find someone who knows the trim and paint codes for the Mclaughins. Anyone out there on the forum with a McL-B with their codes intact and their car in original colour/trim?

Dave Corbin - body number will have to remain a mystery I suppose? Cant see how to calculate or interpret it from the data that I have.

Regards to All

[1939_Buick]

You could try on the tech advisers from the BCA or the McLaughlin Buick Club of Canada

http://www.buickclub.org/indexadviser.htm

http://www.buickclub.org/mclaughlin/

[39BuickEight]

Guys my 2nd data plate has a big "K" stamped in the upper right corner, and there is a faint sideways "2" stamped on the lower right. Any ideas what these mean?

In this thread it is mentioned a letter stamped might mean the car had a side mounted spare? Does anyone know if that is correct?

[sean1997]

K is an accessory option code.  In 1939 K = Heater installed.

 

Don't know what the 2 is for.  Occasionally (especially on convertibles) the body was built at one plant and shipped to another plant for final assembly.  In that case the final assembly plant number was stamped on the trim tag and the frame serial number would start with the same number, but usually it was machine stamped and not hand stamped.

Edited August 23, 2015 by sean1997 (see edit history)

[39BuickEight]

Thanks Sean!