brass car ownership

[tbirdman]

I'm contemplating selling my 64 Bird and picking up a 1912 Cadillac that is in great shape with a ton of mechanicals done. Car is very well sorted out. I have never owned a brass car, so I'm not sure what the experience is like. I think I would like one, but I hate to get into one and find out differently. I do relaize that my top speed willbe restricted and highways are off limits. For those that have owned pre-war Packards whci I'm familiar with, how does brass car ownership compare?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I've never owned one but from what I've seen they are very simple to maintain and are Uncomplicated. Except for starting the engine, which requires hand cranking for early ones.

The biggest problem is finding good parts for them, nearly all replacement parts have to be Hand fabricated but most cars that have survived still have good parts or have been restored already.

Of course they require indoor parking space, which would be a problem for me, but it wouldn't for you.

[tbirdman]

This car is the first one with electric start.

[Owen_Dyneto]

For the most part it's a whole different world, and owners of these cars tend to move in different circles; they are more of-the-era-oriented and less marque-oriented. I've tagged along on a few tours and it's exhilirating. I suggest you pick up some back issues of the publications of the VMCCA (the "Bulb Horn") and the Horseless Carriage Club to see what their experiences and activities are. Or browse their websites.

Like you, I've contemplated a car of this era for a long time, and the maintenance doesn't bother me, the are really not too difficult to fabricate/obtain many mechanical parts. But body, lamps, electrical parts, and accessories are a whole different story, and requires a lot of skills I just don't have. Thus, somewhat reluctantly, I gave up the pursuit of one of these. Another factor was cost, on the high-end brass cars the demand stays very strong with a short supply side for the big cars like Packards, Pierces, Locomobiles, etc.

But if you do make the move to a real veteran car, I and many others on this site will be very interested in hearing of your experiences.

[tbirdman]

The nice thing is that everything on this car has been rebuilt include the the expensive hand made stuff. Ironically the owner traded the car to a dealer in exchange for a Packard plus money back. He already had another brass car so he felt he didn't need to. I sort of the same way, but going in the opposite direction. I also was considering a 37 super sedan Packard that wasn't as nice as my 32. I was considering it for touring purposes but almost felt that I would be duplicating cars of the same era. Though the 37 would ride a hell of a lot better than my 32. With limit space and $, I feel the need to go older into a different era.

The one thing I wrestle with is I won't have a car to do carefree long distance touring like the T-Bird if I get the brass car.

Yep some of those brass cars have gotten really expensive though the 1012 Cadillac seems a good compromise between a common Model T and a very high end car. It is a watermark car as it is the first car with an electic starter.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part it's a whole different world, and owners of these cars tend to move in different circles </div></div>

But We will Still let you talk to use, if you buy

one.

There's really Not much Brass on the '12 Caddy, is there? I didn't realize that.

It does have the right side steering-wheel tho.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part it's a whole different world, and owners of these cars tend to move in different circles </div></div>

But We will Still let you talk to use, if you buy

one.

There's really Not much Brass on the '12 Caddy, is there? I didn't realize that. </div></div>

That's why I would keep the Packard. How could I leave you all

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ken, I can't compare to a Packard from an owner's point of view but will make a couple general observations:

Brass cars have been on an upswing in the past eighteen months or so. I attended a pre-war show in the fall with a fairly strong showing of brass cars, owners ranged in age from a bit younger than myself to older guys. Lots of period dress, victrolas and vintage picnic gear with the cars. For me it was one of the highlights of the fall show season.

As has already been mentioned, it is a whole other crowd, but I think it is very cool to see these cars on the road again. Hotrodders basically ignore these cars, another plus.

A fellow club member here in CT is going on 2 years with a 1914 Buick. Apparently a very robust car, early Buicks seem to have a good touring reputation. He explained to me the basic differences between the Buick and a comparable "T" in general, the Buick is much more sturdily built, and apparently that build quality kept them from going after Ford for a volume price leader. Now there is not a big dollar difference from what I understand. He loves the brass car thing so much he wants another one.

I think the Cadillac, like the Buick represents a good middle of the road brass car, more than a "T" but not into brass Packard type dollars. There is a super nice 1911 Cadillac here in CT, one of the most impressive engines you will ever see when restored.

Check out this site - a well known New England expert on brass cadillacs (among other cool cars)

May be helpful info or as a parts source:

http://www.classiccars.ws/index.html

Good luck - when do you need to make a decision?

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken, I can't compare to a Packard from an owner's point of view but will make a couple general

Good luck - when do you need to make a decision? </div></div>

Probably I need to make a decision in the next couple of days. The price I think may be slightly high but again like Packards not much data to look at. However the dealer is a real reputable person and I feel coomfortable also talking with the owner. I'm willing to pay extra for a well sorted car then go cheap and find yourself in a hole you never will get out of.

Again my major concern is a really giving up the long distance touring comfort of the Bird. Also the Bird is well sorted out unlike most cars you see for sale. But buying a Brass car would introduce me to a whole another world of people and things to learn about which is a very positive thing.

I also I had Brass cars are on the upswing again as new younger blood gets interested in them. It's pretty amazing that I'm considering a car that in 3 years will be a 100 years old.

[1935Packard]

<span style="font-style: italic">I'm willing to pay extra for a well sorted car then go cheap and find yourself in a hole you never will get out of.

</span>

Smart, very very smart.

As for brass cars, I think they're popular because they're just so different. Once your average car collector is collecting cars because they are a trip through history rather than what he remembers as a kid, brass-era cars become pretty desirable: A 40s car draws questions, but a 10s car is a real curiosity.

[K8096]

T Birds are a dime a dozen, 1912 Cadillacs are not. You can always get another T Bird. Buy the Cadillac.

[mrpushbutton]

One thing you just have to keep in mind when driving cars of this era--hitting the brakes is sort of like sending a purchase req. to the front office--you'll get results, but not right away!

My former emploer had a 1912 and 1913 Cadillac, I drove bot one weekend at the Gilmore museum. It's a different sensation, not inferior in any way, just different.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Ken, if you checked out Shappy's site you can compare a couple very similar (11 & 12)cars he has for sale. May help with the pricing, etc.

[tbirdman]

I looked at Shappy's site. He's got the same model list for almost double what I cna get this car for, though it's a mint car while this is more of a 2 car with the right detailing. Hard thing to figure out is how much he comes off the asking price. Some dealers come off quite a bit.

I also think if I want to, pick up this #2 condition 36 120 convertible from a local owner for a little less price than the Cadillac. This car has been well maintained by the owner. Definitely not enough money or space for all my wishes. Though I don't see how collectors maintain their huge collection...by huge I mean more than 2 I'm pretty limited to two cars for space plus $.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the most part it's a whole different world, and owners of these cars tend to move in different circles </div></div>

But We will Still let you talk to use, if you buy

one.

There's really Not much Brass on the '12 Caddy, is there? I didn't realize that.

It does have the right side steering-wheel tho. </div></div>

The 1911 had a lot of brass and Cadillac went to nickle trim in 1912.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

That '36 120 has a lot of eyeball Ken, I recently drove a '36 120 sedan and thought it was a really capable road car.

That said, I was checking out Vault Cars (Steve Snyder) out of CA today, and they list a 1912 cadillac as" coming soon".

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Steve_Mack_CT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That '36 120 has a lot of eyeball Ken, I recently drove a '36 120 sedan and thought it was a really capable road car.

That said, I was checking out Vault Cars (Steve Snyder) out of CA today, and they list a 1912 cadillac as" coming soon". </div></div>

Yes the Cadillac would be coming from Vault Cars. Steve has a great reputation. I'm close to making a decision whether to buy or stand pat.

[tbirdman]

OK I pulled the trigger on the 1912 Cadillac.

So who wants to buy a sweet 64 convertible Bird? Asking 39K.

Pictures are here.

[1935Packard]

Congrats! Can we still call you tbirdman?

[tbirdman]

I guess I need to pick a different name than Tbirdman. Should be interesting with a brass car but I think I will enjoy it along with a whole new crowd I will get to know.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Congrats also. After viewing the T-bird and seeing more pictures of the Packard, you may want to use the name "Mr. Clean".

Now, you should ask something more like 55 grand for the T-bird, and tell your wife/significant other you tried, but just couldn't sell it...

[tbirdman]

If I had the garage space I would, but totally out of space. Though like I said before it's hard enough to keep two cars running, let alone three.

Well I hope the prospective buyer's like how clean the T-bird is. There are a fair amount of 64-66 T-Bird convertibles for sale, but I don't think I've seen one as sharp as mind.

[34PackardRoadsta]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... but I don't think I've seen one as sharp as <span style="color: #000099">mind</span>. </div></div>

Freudian slip...

[tbirdman]

Well the deal is done. here are more pictures.

I figure this would be a car that West would love. No chrome and black wall tires I understand it was featured in the July/August 2006 AACA magazine in a short two page story. Hopefully I will resist touching it in an effort to make it "better".

Now I just need to sell the Bird. so that I can get the Cadillac shipped to me.

Anyone want to buy the Tbirdman.com domain name

[1935Packard]

Ken, your "new" Cadillac is really beautiful. Bravo. Looks like a terrific car.

[tbirdman]

You are all welcomed to it's 100 year birthday in three years

[Guest superods]

I think you made the right choice birdman. You would not have liked the yellow convertible near as much as the beautiful Packard you now own. Buying something out of the rehlm was smart. You will enjoy learning all about the brass era cars.

[tbirdman]

Well the 1912 Cadillac was delivered today by Fed-EX Passport. My neighbor remarked how interesting to see FED-EXdeliver such a large package and Saturday delivery to boot.

Interesting in in Oct 1911 it was delivered to a dealer in Portland, OR so you can sort of say it's come back to its roots. I didn't do much but start it (which is an interesting sequence of steps) and pull it into my garage. Tomorrow I will begin to look at it much closer with a friend who has experience with Brass Cars.

It is a very well documented car and can only hope that it is much like my Packard was-the previous owner spent a lot of money on mechanical items.

[Tom M]

Ken,

I did realize you were traveling this far to show your Packard .

Fathers Day Car Show

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken,

I did realize you were traveling this far to show your Packard .

Fathers Day Car Show </div></div>

Well maybe I should have. Today I went to a "judged" car show and "took" a 2nd place in the convertible class to a driver condition 60s MG. They only knew my car number and kept calling 93. I refused to accept the trophy out of respect for the Packard name. My friend who has a very nice 37 Club Sedan didn't even finish in the top two in the 30s class. The number 2 car in that class was your typical primer rat rod. To make it worse supposely the judging was done by the mustang car club who you would think as a single marque club, would know how to judge. I know you can't these local car shows too serious, but come on, how about some respect. The only thing I can think of is they ran out of judges and recruited some people who knew nothing about cars to be judges.

Anyway, looks like that show was a very nice car show and much nice then the car show I attended. The car show I attended had a lowr rider 60s Cadllac with naked women on the side I guess it made you anxious to finish your car.

[Tom M]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I guess it made you anxious to finish your car. </div></div>After going to the show today it sure does. Wife and I went and visit her father after wards when we go home I went right out to the garage to do some more sanding on the hood panels. Boy them lovers are fun to sand by the time I am done with them I don't think I will have any nails left

This show was not a judging show more for the public to see how cars were really built . I take that back the only judging was for the public to vote on the car they like the best.

For me when it comes to a judged car I am not sure if my car will be up to them standards. As of now I see my car being more of a show and go. But I will see what happens with my outcome of my restoration down the road.

[tbirdman]

That is what I intend my 12 Cadilac to be, more of a show and go. Just need to resist improving it.

Are you using sanding blocks at all? I found even using sanding blocks, the tips of my finger would get sore. I'm sure it's from my improper technique.

[Tom M]

Ken,

Yes I use sanding blocks as much as I can but to get into the louver areas is tuff with a block so you have to wrap the sand paper around your figures to get down in the grooves.

Well knowing what you have done with your Packard I can see you not resisting taking your 12 Caddy to the next step.

Say do you know what happen to our buddy Rick (speedstr)? We haven't heard from him in awhile. Hope everything is alright with him.