Buying New versus Remanufactured Teves

[Enoytsur]

Hi, on one of my Rettas I am going to replace the Teves System. The question is whether or not the Remanufactured System from Prior Manufacturing is topnotch and dependable? I heard some concerning failure rate comments but nothing substantiated.

Has anyone actually purchased one from Prior (I've takled with them .. they are great to deal with - $682.06)? If so, what do you think? Did it work on first install? The auto repair shop I go to charges for each take out and pull in. Even with a one year warranty having to install one two or three gets expensive. Since I drive my cars (not just for show) I need dependability ... does anyone have day-to-day driving experience with a reman unit? If so, does it perform like the system is designed to perform?

Thank you, John

[Barney Eaton]

Look at the options.

Prior at $682

New parts from GM....

Master cylinder asm about $1600

Pump about $500

Accumulator $150

Pressure switch $150

That totals $2400 (3.5 times the price of Prior)

In both cases you pay someone to install them and ask GM what the warranty is on their parts.

[Ronnie]

Is the unit listed for the Reatta at Advance Auto Parts the complete unit? It has a lifetime warranty and is priced cheaper at $468.99. Might be worth checking out.

From thier website:

Cardone ABS Pump/Motor: Remanufactured

Part Number: 124407

Features:

* Quality Testing - Computer Tested for Internal and External Leakage and Performance

* Quality Standards - Remanufactured to ISO 9002 and QS9000 Standards.

* Quality Assurance - Unit is Remanufactured in a Class 100,000 Clean Room to Prevent Contamination That Causes Failure.

[JWC]

I sold a Reatta to one of the members here and it had a bad Teves unit so he decided to get one from Prior and had nothing but problems with it, even after sending it back a couple of times, maybe he will log on and give all the details, but it didn't sound like a good experience.

[Barney Eaton]

Ronnie, th Advance Auto Parts pump/motor for $468.99 rebuilt does not sound like a bargin when the new part from GM goes for less than $600.

[Ronnie]

AutoPartsGiant.com offers a RAYBESTOS rebuilt unit for $965 with free shipping. Link is here. Might be better than Prior unit?

[Enoytsur]

This is a great discussion ... and helpful. I had an opportunity to speak confidentially with an employee of Prior for 20 minutes before I surfaced the topic on this site. The person spoke at length about how they do their work but more importantly to me their failure rate per units sold. Having part of my background in quality management performance numbers are important to me, they're solid probability indicators. That conversation flagged me to ask people with practical experience installing and using the new and remanufactured units about them.

I appreciate all that chimed in, thank you. John

[Richard S]

I've used Prior for both my Reatta and Allante. The Reatta several years ago, still working just fine. No problems at all. The Allante replaced in 2000. Pump, which is a separate unit entirely, just failed. Brushes wore out. I had them made and replaced for about $80. Unit tested fine and should arrive Friday. I think the Bosch master cylinder etc should be good. Of course, the Reatta unit was under $400 when I had it done.

If you do a search on ebay, you will find an outfit named Dynatech Corporation in North Hollywood that says it has rebuilt Reatta units in stock for under $500, but I don't know a thing about them. John, you might want to talk with them (818)506-5186 or 310-866-37240) to see what your impression is and pass that along.

[Enoytsur]

Richard ... thank you for taking the time to respond. Your info regarding the Prior Remanufacturing Teves System was invaluable ... it is always best to have data and/or information gained through experience when making important decisions.

Of equal importance to me is the lead on Dynatech Corporation. Turns out the company, owned by a gentleman named Sampson (Sam), is the real deal. I spoke with him at length ... the guy knows the system like the back of his hand, real impressive guy. He walked me through point by point testing including how much psi etc. at each juncture. Then he explained each individual part and how it interfaces and in which order what happens and so on. He was even willing to walk me through the installation as I did it if I chose to do it myself. The guy is extremely candid ... I like that.

When asked about Prior Manufacturing he was very complimentary ... how's that for class and business savvy? Why do I say savvy ... because of my follow-up question to him ... "are you as good or better than Prior"? "Of course, only less expensive". This guy has a 99.2% Positive Rating on eBay over a five-year period and nearly 900 respondents ... that's quite a track record. Nearly every response compliments service and speed.

- eBay Part #130197566161 Remanufactured ABS Brake System

This is not a one shot deal ... Dynatech's business is remanufacturing auto parts just as Prior's is.

- Cost: $495.00 + $100 core charge.

- Telephone # 1-818-506-5186

- Link to item (Cut and Paste): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D130197566161%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1&item=130197566161

John in Sarasota - any questions feel free to e-mail me: enoytsur@aol.com

[Guest steakneggs]

This is a good opportunity to convert to a vac-assist system. I'm doing one on my '88 and have documented most of it on this forum. It can be done for about $200 using used parts. A brand new unit from Autopartswarehouse.com (master cyl and booster) is only $200. The rest of the stuff is just changing some nipples on the Reatta lines and possibly reaming or re-fitting the pushrod. There might be an exact bolt-on replacement out there somewhere (it sure as heck ain't the Riviera one that I used). You will never have to lose any hair over that pathetic Teves system again. Steak

[Ronnie]

Steak, I don't want to hijack this thread but will you give us an update on your progress in the thread you started earlier.

[Doug Harness]

I bought a unit from Prior in 2004 and had it installed in the '89 by the local Buick dealer. The only problem was that the accumulator on the Prior unit was too tall for hood clearance. Apparently it was for a different vehicle. The mechanic reinstalled the accumulator from the old unit, which was nearly new.

If you encounter the "too-tall" accumulator, make sure that you contact the Prior folks before you return it. Mine got shipped back with the old "core" unit and it took them a few days to find it and issue credit. The Prior unit has worked fine for three and a half years.

[Enoytsur]

Thank you, Doug, for taking the time to respond as well as for the valuable information. Since this discussion began I've come across another auto parts remanufacturing company following a tip from Richard, Dynatech Corporation, that also sells the remanufactured Teves System ($495.00). The detailed info is on page one of this thread.

Again, thank you ... whether I ultimately go with Dynatech or Prior I'll alert the shop I use to the clearance issue.

John

[Richard S]

For a difference of $300 between the bolt-on reman Teves and the non-abs system Riviera mod, I would have to go with Teves. It's not that $300 is pocket change; that's a lot of cash. But the savings in time, the restoration of abs, the maintenance of OEM status, and the fact that the Teves system, with all its faults, is good for at least 7-10 years, captures my vote. Now if we find a bolt-on vacuum assist unit, or at least one that does not require the kinds of mods Steak went through, I might reconsider.

[Guest steakneggs]

I was looking at Autopartswarehouse site and they have a '91 Reatta unit (vac) for $190 plus $50 core which you would have to pay. I've never seen a '91 unit but I'm assuming it is a conventional master cyl/booster arrangement with lines going to a separate ABS unit (which is not required unless you are a WOMAN). It is a different part # than the '88-'90 unit which has the same # as a Riviera. As I have posted earlier the Riv unit requires some tweaking to fit, beyond what most Reatta owners would want to tackle. I wish you or someone would purchase one of these '91 units (or find a used one) to end the suspense as to what kind of vac unit is completely bolt on to an earlier model. Steak

[Guest steakneggs]

I was wondering if you have attempted to remove your Teves. I was piddling with mine, which is off the car, and attempting to remove the rear nipple (line was cut due to rust) from the adapter that screws into the Teves (so I could see what size it was). I could not. The 14mm nipple nut became rounded so I switched to my best yard sale vicegrip and still could not budge it. This is in ideal conditions. It would seem all but impossible to do it on the car having to hold the adapter at the same time. It's obviously been done though. The front ones weren't a problem. Steak.

[Machiner 55]

Try PB BLaster?

[Guest steakneggs]

I could use something like that in my situation because I don't intend to use these items but what about someone who didn't want mineral spirits in their braking system? Steak

[Richard S]

Just to pick up on John's post, I decided to check DynaTech out so I drove to North Hollywood and met with Sam. He does know these systems quite well. While his shop is not a high tech operation peopled by folks in white lab coats, the work that comes out the door is very nice. I say a large variety of industrical motors, turbos, starters, alternators, water pumps etc. Alnost everything that involves bearings and armitures. Sam seems to think that the most common Teves failure is an internal bearing that results from the pump running too long. The pump motors are desiged for very short bursts. Unfortunately, the accumulators have a high failure rate, and many fail gradually rather than all at once. If the diaphram develops a miniscule leak, the pump must work longer to maintain pressure. Since they are not designed for that, they fail. When that happens, replacing the accumulator is necessary, but not sufficient.

Sam has done some investigation into the accumulators which he feels is the weak link in the system. He took one apart and showed me the diaphram and how the shell can be cut and reassembled, if one has the tools and skill. He says that he could get the diaphram for about 25 cents, and could probably rebuild and recharge one in less than 30 minutes. Unfortunately, to make money, I think he would have to sell more than the market could absorb, and the price would not be vastly lower than the $120 or so GM charges.

[Machiner 55]

Well... as my Mom used to say...

"Well then, your up sh*t creek without a paddle!"

[Machiner 55]

Must be referring to another John. Anyway...

Looks something like this...

[Richard S]

I ended up buying a unit from Sam at Dynatech for my 90. Installed it today. But of a pain working up under the dash. When I was hooking up the electrics I encountered a frustrating problem. There are 4 pigtails that go into the Tevel unit. Two worked fine and 2 would not. The unit sold me by Dynatech has flat [spade] prongs in rectangular connecters, but my pigtails are designed for pins and rounded connectors. They are pictured below. The first two are what was shipped by Dynatech, and the next 2 are what was on the car. I am waiting to see what Sam proposes. I suppose I can either remove and exchange the unit [ugh!!], or splice in what is probably the older style pigtails.

[Barney Eaton]

Richard, the connector problem has never come up before.

It appears Prior is aware of the difference connectors out there and they never get installed on units for Reattas.

Little things like this seperate the men from the boys when it comes to good shops. I suspect that Dyantech will correct the problem for you, and save some future Reatta owners the inconvenience of installing the unit twice.

I looked into accumulators and cutting them apart and replacing the diaphram is probably the easy part. How do you recharge them with 700 psi of nitrogen? I suspect it take some special equipment (with lots of safety features)

A local hydraulic house said that there are companys that recharge hydraulic accumulators used on machinery, but ours doesn't appear to have the valving to allow a recharge. In addition, they said they would probably not recharge it if they could because of the liability of it being used on a motor vehicle.

There is a "future" solution. Adapt a standard industrial hydraulic accumulator to the Reatta. This will probably require mounting the accumulator in a different position and a "custom" adaptor hose developed to run from the pump to the accumulator. Until this becomes a seriour problem, doing a accumulator conversion will be on the back burner.