The series one swap

[Roadster90]

I asked Ryan for hs number and he was very evasive and did not give it to me....I still would like to have him re program my mem cal, but have no idea how to fill out his 283,482 page waiver form (the reason for wanting to speak to him)he emailed me to return to him before he did any work. So I guess I will have to live with the stock mem cal .

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I have never called him. Everything I have done with him is by E-mail. He believes that if he was to spend all the time on the phone he would not be able to get all his work done.

Also I will not take this off the forum. I am going to fix a couple things on my install and post them again, but it is going to take me a bit of time

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

BUMP, for a new member

[Guest halofaller]

Lets cut to the chase If you like working on Reattas, the SC conversion to be specific and would rather do that than your part-time job...

How much for a turn-key conversion?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

2.5K plus parts. Just because I do not have as much time as I used to. If you can wait 2 1/2 years $500.

[handmedownreatta]

did your gas mileage go up or down?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

It went down just a bit. I account for this from: 1) it is superchared (requires more fuel just to idle and run) 2) If using the tranny that came with the engine, the gearing is a bit lower.

I get 20-25 depending on my driving habbits, but I have not been on a full freway tank yet. I would bet a full tank on the freeway would get 27. Keep in mind that it will depend on your tune.

[Guest THEHKP7M13]

D-A-N-I-E-L: Does all this change for a 1991 Reatta? Secondly if you had a complete donor car from say a 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP for a 1991 Reatta does that make the conversion easier?

[Guest Greg Ross]

You're talking about "Apples and Oranges" here.

Going with your '97 Grand Prix, that's an OBD II/ 3800 Series II BCM/ Engine combination that will not just drop in to the '91 Reatta. The Engine will bolt up but that's the simple part. Being an OBD II EBCM managed engine the sensors and operating language are completely different.

The one benifit the '91 Reatta has is that it was equipped with the 3800 Series I engine, and the first generation S/C accessories will bolt right on.

Then, all you need do is get the tuning done.

Perhaps D-A-N-I-E-L can fill you in on what the difference is concerning the "91 automatic tranny. Not my bag, I'm a manual tranny type.

[Guest THEHKP7M13]

Greg Ross;

Thanks for the input. What I meant by hypothetical donor car was the whole car. So pulling all the wiring and ECM right into the Reatta. I would think it would run like a charm. My biggest concern would be making the gauges work. Secondly if you have an entire donor car (the 1997 Pontiad Grand Prix GTP - lets keep the example the same)couldn't this be done to any 88-91 Reatta?

[Guest CL_Reatta]

^

As it has been said before, ANYTHING is possible, just depends how much money you have.... Gauges would be a issue. especially with the self diagnostics.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

THEHKP7M13,

Putting the series II in a 91 would be alot easier in most aspects.

1) You do not have to wire in a second control for the tranny (but I would have to double check to ensure that the 97' used the 4T60e and not the 65e)

2) No tranny mount modification.

3) No searching for a 91' axle.

4) The series II can be controled by the original Reatta computer. You just have to change sensores plug wire placement, and the injector wire placement.

Biggest down side would be a little worse gas mileage than a OBD2 controlled setup, BUT doing this is not really a gas mileage thing. There will be other issues but nothing too big to keep a person from doing it.

[padgett]

The major issue is the LAN (ALDL) that moves information between the modules changed from the P4 system used in the Reatta to OBD-II in 1995. This means you need either two computers for the powertrain or to use an earlier computer (which depends on whether using a "E" trans and Delco ABS) reprogrammed for the later engine.

A secondary issue is that the BCM uses a specially formatted data stream from the ECM to create the instrument display. The format of this stream is known and we have a good handle on the -253 computer just I do not know if anyone ever put it all together & have not seen such a complete BIN (a 32k data file).

This is something where if you have the .bin, replication is almost free but is very expensive to create the first time particularly if you want reliability.

Part of the problem is that GM has never made the original programming information available, everything that exists has been reverse engineered, and the Reatta need goes far beyond chipping a 3800.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

The 91' will control the whole thing with minimum programming, that Ryan can do for about a $100 (last time I checked).

The tranmissions have contro as long as they are both 4t60e's. There are no issues with communication as long as the sensors are swithched to the OBD1 off the original LN3. The original ECM will see nothing out of the ordinary, other than a diffrent fuel managment setting. The BCM will not see anything difrent either. All they know is that they are controlling the same sensors as before. The fuel milage will be off, and I am unsure if it can be adjusted yet.

I would not add a second computer for the 91' swap. It does not need it. It would be a much bigger issue to rewire for the second comupter than to change the sensors on the Series2 engine.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

bump, just reviewing things for a new project

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Bump

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

bump

[Machiner 55]

Phillip,

Please check you're PM inbox.

I'll be back after 6pm central.

John F.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

bump

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Daniel and all,

I have thought about this swap for a long time. I dont care for stock Reattas. I like them as the engineers and designers envisioned them before the accountants and marketing people got involved. I love to see these cars modified with OEM parts that in theory could have been available at the Craft Centre.

I have multiple 1991 Reattas. Question for all: True or False. If one wanted a supercharged Reatta (dont we all?) the best way to accomplish this would be to start with a 1991 Reatta and a 1995 supercharged complete, running Riviera as the donor car.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Correct. It is the easiest and most straight forward swap enabling the use of the hd tranny from the downer car. Only minor and well documented tuning for the ecm.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Daniel and all,

Would the end result be a car that ran exactly like the Riviera. California Smog Legal?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I cannot say for sure, but if ca works the same way as Washington and most other states then the smog is based on vehicle weight and type. So it should be fine. The smog effects can be tuned down a bit during the tuning process. Keep in mind the rattan should fall in the same class as the Cadillac Eldorado, which had the 4.9 v8. I would imagine you would be fine.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

Daniel,

In your opinion would the PCM from the Riviera need to be moved to the Reatta? This is somthing everyone contemplating the swap will need to know.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

No I would just use the and reprogram the 91's ECM. The 92-95 park ave uses the same ECM but it may have a different pin out. One would have to check the wireing, pluss the Eprom is most likely different.

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

I can't wait to post the series 2/3 and f40 six speed swap thread.

I should be have it completed by June.

[NCReatta]

Bump! can one use the stock '91 engine harness for a series 1 S/C swap?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Bump! can one use the stock '91 engine harness for a series 1 S/C swap?

Yes. But you will have to extend the fuel injector wires just a bit.

[NCReatta]

Yes. But you will have to extend the fuel injector wires just a bit.

Ok, at which point? Like between the loom and the connector? Or before they split to go to each side of the intake? Will I need to add/modify anything else in the wiring?

Should I use the ECM from the doner car? Or have it reprogrammed? If reprogrammed, who do you recommend?

I'll need to change the fuel pump as well, correct?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Ok, at which point? Like between the loom and the connector? Or before they split to go to each side of the intake? Will I need to add/modify anything else in the wiring?

If you repin the one out of the donner car you could do it without a splice. Otherwise you will have to extend the wires that cross over the intake.

Should I use the ECM from the doner car? Or have it reprogrammed? If reprogrammed, who do you recommend?

Use the original unless you want to have alot more wiring to do, aqlso all your gauges will work with no new issues. Use sinister performance. He has done quite a few of these and cost less than anyone else.

I'll need to change the fuel pump as well, correct?<!-- google_ad_section_end --> Yes ( 1989 firebird formula with the turbo 3.8 is the one I used originally) You can also find higher output ones on line, but if you are not beefing up the engine there is no need.

Edited June 6, 2013 by D-a-n-i-e-l (see edit history)