vintageride

I debated whether I should post these photos since they are slightly OT. Nonetheless, I believe folks may be interested in them. These automobiles were scratch built vehicles that competed at the 2010 Autorama in Detroit this past weekend. One was a Packard themed coupe built by Fran Roxas and powered with an actual Packard V12, the other automobile was a convertible based loosely on the 30s and 40s Packards. Vintageride

Excellent. You remember too. You may not know that he raced a Maxwell car in the 1920s while he worked at the Worcester branch of Alvin T Fuller's Packard Motor Company of Boston. You can read about it here. http://www.charltonhistoricalsociety.org/CHSNewsletterFall2008.pdf I talked to the guy that purchased the V-12 convertible coupe after Dick passed. It was an interesting car. Commercial chassis, 1937 junior body and a 1941 front clip. He registered that as a 1940. It really looked nice. According to the guy that bought the 1940, it went to a collection somewhere out west. I would love to hear from someone that knows where the car is now. See attached photo. There was also a similar car based on a 1940s vintage Victoria. The victoria had a lowered ride height. The 1936 boat tail also had twin superchargers fitted on the V-12. The superchargers were not on the car when it was auctioned in 2007. Maybe the museum in Germany removed them. I do rember his other boat tail project car. I am not sure it was fiberglass though. It was quite rough and needed allot of work. I have no idea where that went. Good to see someone else remembers him. Most people only know the recent history of the boat tail and nothing about the other cars. He made a list of of over 100 Packards he owned over the years. Vintageride

Cringes and tears. Oh, the humanity. Vintageride

Thanks for the comments Mr. Mareness. The car shown in West's photo was from New York State. The car was owned by Richard Saunders in Rensselaer, New York. The body is from a 1929 Auburn. The Packard Twelve engine was balanced, bored and modified by Mr. Saunders. Mr. Saunders worked at several Packard dealers and knew the best parts to use in the car to make it relatively low, light, and quick. He made notes, took photos of the modifications, and kept all the registration/inspection documents. The car was painted red from about 1952 to 1976 when he died. After that, the new owner painted it a light tan color in the 1980s. Most internet references note modifications were completed in the 1980s. The history of the car actually goes all the way back to the 1930s when the Auburn was purchased. Initial modifications on the Auburn were innocent enough, when the sidemounts were removed and Woodlights were added. The Boat Tail Packard has been featured in several magazine and newspaper articles, plus it was displayed in a museum in Europe for many years. As a young boy, I remember it as a red blur speeding past dad's model 900 convertible. It is a time capsule to be sure. Vintageride

At the time, it was simply size. Mr. Saunders was looking for bore sizes larger than Packard offered. Today bore sizes would likely be determined by the condition of the worst borehole in the block. Boring is conducted until score marks and pits are removed. Pistons are then ordered according to the size of the finished block. Vintageride

The "Packard Motor Company" letter provides some hope to all of us that if the "Packard" angle adaptor plate are unavailable, and then a “Van Norman” type boring machine and proper accessories may work. The technical information in the short letter is really valuable to all of us. If we don't write it down this information, share it, or keep it safe, it will get lost. In the case of the pistons referened in the letter, Mr. Saunders opted for Judson Manufacturing Company Pistons over the diminutive ones offered by Packard. I have allot of information about Mr. Saunders. Mr. Saunders worked at Alvin T Fuller's Packard dealer in Worcester and later for L.R. Mack in Albany. Vintageride

Actually, the technical observations and suggestions by folks like Twunk Rack seem to have the most value to me here and do not appear to be off course regarding the discussion between the 1937 Super Eight and Twelve. The thread originator may also appreciate the technical considerations regarding the Twelve. This knowledge is quite useful even if the work is sent out to a proper restoration or machine shop specializing in these vehicles. So Twunk Rack may not be sending the thread on a detour to Scott12180’s original question. Here is a “Packard Motor Company” letter from 1950 regarding Mr. Saunders' inquiry about where a “Packard” Twelve boring bar adaptor plate may be borrowed for use. Interestingly, the letter also states a “Van Norman” type boring machine will also work. The “Van Norman” referred to must have the proper fixture or adjustment for mounting to the Twelve block. There are several “Van Norman” models, so maybe a machinist can provide more insight. The letter also addressed Mr. Saunders' question about the largest Twelve pistons that were available from Packard. Vintageride Boring Bar Letter.PDF

Tom, I ran across your thread here. I am a bit late, but you may be interested in the example photo of a 1937 Packard Twelve Boat Tail at the Tebo Garage in Colorado. I don't have much information on it. It was shown in an article about the museum. Perhaps somone in the club knows about it. The car I am most familiar with is the one that West and Imported provided photos of. I knew that car as a boy. It's evolutionary history goes all the way back to the thirties. Peter Tacy

That would be quite a pedigree. Two main bearings. Yikes. So far I have four photos of the Maxwell. A friend of ours ran across one of the trophies from 1922. Mr. Saunders talked about this car frequently, but never mentioned that detail. There was no mention of the engine or car being specially prepared other than what he did. At the time Mr. Saunders worked in Worcester at one of Alvin T. Fuller’s Packard Dealers. So he may have had access to more tools than the average racer. Mr. Saunders would have known what to look for in racing bits, but he would have been limited to the means of a 22 or 23 year old man. As far as the level of the competitors, one was described as a well prepared and financed Model T. Of course, that could mean quite a few things in terms of body, chassis, and powertrain improvements. There were so many options for the Model T. These races were run on local horse tracks. You can see the proximity of the spectators to the cars. Peter Tacy

I couldn't resist commenting on this thread. The modified 1915 Maxwell in the attached photos outperformed the Model Ts. This car was built and raced by Dick Saunders in the early 1920s in the Charlton, Massachusetts area. The Maxwell was so much faster than the other cars (mostly Ts) that it was required to start many races after the other cars rolled off. The apparent weak link in the Maxwell was the rear axle. This was eventually replaced with a different rear axle. The first photo shows the Maxwell at speed. Lots of mods even visible in the grainy photo. You can see what appears to be the Maxwell in the background of the second photo running down one of the competitors driving the number 13 car at the Sturbridge Fairgrounds. The Maxwell won that race and several others. Peter Tacy

I just noticed the recent post. Looks like it is well on its way. I also see that the car that was written about in Hot Rod Magazine and the Cormorant Magazine has been restored as well. The owner may have some valuable technical information for you. Packard Stories

A friend has a 1926 RHD Australian export with disc wheels. He mentioned to me most of the shipping lists he has are wire wheel cars, his touring car was one of a few that noted disk wheels. What was generaly shipped to England? It seems wire wheels would be popular in England too. My friend is accustomed to snail mail so it may be a bit before I can find out what years his shipping information covers. There were apparently some shipped to Japan. Do a google image search for "packard source:life" There were Packard business ties as well. Scroll thorough the photos for Packard to see. I concur with Ivan about the "bonnet" or hood. It seems a six would likely look shorter and as a speedster would be odd. To me the hood looks like my friends 1926 Touring and my Dads 1927 roadster (both eights). Plus the size of the headlights seem to suggest an eight. A quick excercise with photoshop may do the trick. Peter Tacy

I am looking for someone that can tell me about the Eldorado Biarritz cars built in 1976 and 1977. My brother currently owns a nice 1977 Eldorado Biarritz with 60,000 miles. He is looking for someone that basically knows ins and outs of the production of the last big Eldorados. Peter Tacy vintageride@gmail.com 248 752 3413

The big Packard Merlin or the Alison was also frequently used in the hydroplane boats. The last piston powered unlimited hydroplane that I remember competing on the Detroit River was about four years ago. Very few Avro Lancasters are left. There is a great Air museum in Ottawa that I visited a years ago. They have an Avro Lancaster and a Mustang. I was also privileged to see an Avro Lancaster fly a couple of years ago at an air show in Ypsilanti. It really is great that so many people are working to preserve these important pieces of history.

I have found someone that wants this tire. Thanks to all for your interest. Peter Tacy

Free Denman Classic Tire, 8.20 x 15, 4 ply, whitewall tire, 100 percent tread (some nubs still present). Unknown age of tire. Appropriate for spare or non-highway use. Peter Tacy Ferndale, Michigan vintageride@gmail.com

The funeral Car was used for Baron Koyata's funeral after WWII. Of course it is not captioned correctly, but what a great pair of photos. RHD perhaps? Source: http://images.google.com/hosted/life Search for "Packard" or http://www.google.com "image" search for packard source:life Make sure folks also look through the other Packard photos in the Life Magazine Archive. These include the factory inside and out, several caribbeans, a boat tail, a Panther, Packard-Merlin Production, a Russian Zis (Search "Limousine"), ect.. Peter Tacy

Ruane, I wish you luck on your project. I have enjoyed the comments from all of you too. I love the cars that are restored to original condition and appreciate the effort it takes to get all the details correct. Like a rolling time capsule. We should all remember, it is also not easy to pull off a resto-rod or custom. Much craftmanship is required to package and engineer elements that were not originally found together. I am glad to see so much interest in Packards. It seems like more folks are interested than ever. I think we all smile when think about the growth that has occured. Many of the cars have appreciated in value quite nicely despite the economy. The next few months will tell. Peter Tacy Ferndale, Michigan

It will require a 30 gallon tank.

One down, one to go. I have located a rumble seat step for the 900. Many thanks to those who helped. Peter Tacy

Thanks for the responses. The 900 is not sidemounted. The spare is mounted on the rear of the car. Peter

I am looking for parts for a Model 900 Convertible coupe and a 1207 Victoria. For the Model 900 I need a rumble seat step for the right rear bumper. I need to find a 30 gal. fuel tank for the 1207. It would be nice to find a refurbished unit or one that is in solid condition. This is needed to replace a tank that was cleaned and "sealed" in the eighties. Peter Tacy Vintageride@gmail.com

There is an interesting late forties Packard 2 door fastback project car on the Detroit Craigslist. It states it has a 327 Automatic. The fastback body type is one of the better 48-50 Packards. The only downside is it is not a Custom. There are a few others. Peter Tacy

There was an article in the 1970s or 1980s in the Packard Automobile Classics (PAC) or Packards International (PI) magazine. The article was called something like "Beware! This Packard!" It was about a black 1956 Packard Clipper Two Door Hardtop that was fitted with a Dual Four Barrel set up like your car. It may have been a 374 too. The article was pretty specific about the modifications to the car. I wonder if it was about your car. Peter Tacy

Stude8 I think you are right. Former Michigander Ken Burns did a documentary on him. Look at this URL, with areference to Jack johnson. same car. Different view. http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/01.12.05/blackness-0502.html ...and West seems to be right. Model 30 from 1910 or 1911. Cadillac folks? He loved automobiles too. http://www.nd.edu/~joycecol/exhibits/winkexhibit/JohnsonJ.710-18-89.jpg http://www.first-magazine.net/2008/03/30/jack-johnson/