JanZverina

http://forums.aaca.org/f177/package-tray-work-my-63-a-372855.html Hi dhaven, Here's a thread from a little bit ago when I redid my parcel shelf on my '63. Should be very similar if not exact to the '64 regarding removal and installation, unless your new one is one of those fiberglas shelves. Others can chime in, but IIRC those need some fettling and fitting. My board was in great shape so all I did was remove it, recover it, and reinstall. The rear seats and some window moldings must come out to do the job.

Hi Ed, I'm currently in the middle of this conversion as well on my drum/drum '63. Based on that same Riview article, I ordered a distribution block, model PR106A from Inline Tube in Shelby Township, MI. But on Kaber's advice, it is not needed. I'm in the middle of this process because after switching to a dual master and later booster, my brakes are now ridiculously over-sensitive at very low speeds, versus before, when I had hardly any assist at higher speeds. I just had my original '63 booster rebuilt by Booster Dewey and will install it next week, along with that all-important 0-ring that's needed between the master cylinder and the booster. I'll let everyone know if that solves my problem.

Hi Marcus, I had the same issue. To add to Ed's reply, make sure the hose is connected at both the glove box end and trunk latch end, and if you need to replace the hose, use the same inside-diameter of hose to get a tight fit. Mine was disconnected at the glove box and after reattaching, it worked fine. Not much suction needed to release the trunk latch, and it works just as effectively as a cable or electronic release!

Hi Ed, Yes, that's why I took that front-end pix from both angles. Lots of other nice cars in the area (but not for this forum) including a '65 Wildcat coupe.

I was in Palm Springs recently and came across two nice Rivs. The Desert Sand (is that the right name?) '63 was parked on the main street with its windows down, and then later I saw it parked in a rather nice neighborhood - windows down again. (It doesn't rain in PS so maybe they don't need to work!) It had a repaint and was an early '63 - a non-ribbed dash applique and a 120mph speedo. It needed some courtesy light lenses but otherwise was pretty complete. The '65 was in the back lot at McCormick Auction Co., which is getting ready for their big auction in the next week or two. It was tastefully done and in good cosmetic shape. Anyone know these cars?

Thanks, Darren and Chuck. I ordered the Dormans and did exactly what you said, Chuck, about the bending the metal tabs into the correct shape. This socket does not look or feel quite as robust as the OEM ones, but it did the trick so I'll keep an eye on it. Thanks again for the advice, guys!

Welcome, Mark, and as you already know, this is the place for invaluable advice that you will soon find saves you not only untold dollars, but untold hours should you be tracking down a challenge in a 50+ year old car! It's very cool that your daughter appreciates the design and presence of these early-generation Rivieras - my son and daughter do as well! Ask us about anything and everything, and if you haven't already, join the Riviera Owner's Association. They publish a high-quality magazine and support a broad core of vendors who help keep our rolling works of art on the road and in good shape. I have a '63 as well, so welcome to the fold. It certainly looks as if you have a nice example so enjoy it! I like to say that you may be the current owner, but also remember that you are also a caretaker so others may enjoy these great cars as well! IMO, the early Rivs, and quite a few of the later-gen models, were truly a bright spot for GM, especially as they work through today's challenges.

Thanks, Jim. I spoke with "Booster" Dewey today and he said that all 1960's masters, single or dual, have the ridge for the O-ring seal. I'm going to send him my '63 booster for a check and possible rebuild, since it was purchased and installed by the previous owner and I don't know it's history. I do know that the "ears" on the m/c side of the booster were installed upside down, though. Dewey says that shouldn't affect its operation, but I don't want to go through another install and reinstall if I can help it. Thanks again to you and Tim and all on the forum for input. I'll keep everyone updated as I progress.

Thanks, Tim - very helpful! Has it already been a year since you did this? I just put my old booster into storage so now I have to get it out and make sure that O-ring is in the box. I'll keep you and others posted to see if that indeed solves the problem. Thanks again for your responses!

Hi Tim - just to be sure with the O-ring - it goes on the flat edge of the rear of the master cylinder as shown by the green dot in the attached image of my single m/c, right? Or does it go into the ridge marked by the red dot? Also, do I put anything on the O-ring before installation? Darren: Thanks - I rechecked compatibility and my dual master is for a 67-70 Riv.

Thanks, Tom - you're a man with an economy of words! So after a little more sleuthing, I think I may be homing in on that O-ring as the culprit - as in the fact that upon inquiry, my mechanic said it was not there when he separated the '63-style vacuum booster from the 63 single-cylinder master and the '63 vacuum booster - and that he also said it was NOT required between the later-style dual master and booster. So that tells me that when the previous owner installed that rebuilt (63) booster, I was most likely losing pedal assist at higher speeds because of the absence of that O-ring as Tim mentioned earlier. So I guess the next step is to reinstall the 63 booster with the O-ring in place, since Tom says it should bolt up to my later dual master cylinder, and then reattach the reserve vacuum tank...

Thanks, Tim. So the question, then, is if the dual master cylinder I installed, which is this one... http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/OBH3/101328/01292.oap?year=1968&make=Cadillac&model=Commercial%2BChassis&vi=1494169&ck=Search_01292_1494169_-1&pt=01292&ppt=C0066 ...fits the 1963 model brake booster. I also noticed that my mechanic disconnected the large vacuum tank on the left inner fender when he installed the later booster, since that one only has one tube coming out, not a dual one. Would that have any effect? The later booster is this one: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/OBH3/5471324/01305.oap?year=1965&make=Buick&model=Electra&vi=1319284&ck=Search_01305_1319284_-1&pt=01305&ppt=C0066

Tim, do you have a '63 or a '64? I thought that a 1963 booster did not fit a later (dual) master cylinder setup.

OK, my brake woes continue. I took my '63 Riv out yesterday for a spin and no doubt about it: no matter how gently I feather the brake pedal, it still causes the car to screech and lurch and want to stand on its nose at very low speeds. This was really evident when I was going very slowly down a steep hill with a four-way stop at the bottom. It was like some '60s sitcom, where someone's learning to drive for the first time! So to recap... I had two mechanics tell me that my linings, drums, etc., and everything at the wheel and tire ends look good. Because previously, I had literally no vacuum assist at higher speeds -- but good assist and no screechy stops at low speeds -- I replaced the vacuum booster with a 1967 Riv model for a drum/drum setup as I have now, and with that I had to change to a dual-master cylinder (1964 and later). I also got that special O-ring that goes between the m/cyl and booster from Dewey. After that the brakes started to be real grabby or over-assisted at low speeds, even after backing up the car several times to adjust the self-adjusting brakes. I had also installed a brass 'distribution' block, but per Tim Kaber's advice, removed it and used a three-way tee fitting instead, which made little to no difference in reducing pedal sensitivity at low speeds. Since the car stopped fine with vacuum assist at very low speeds previously, I can't imagine something dramatically changed with the front drums or linings. So using some deductive reasoning, could I have a faulty booster even though it's new? And how hard is it to swap out just the booster? Thanks/Jan

Thanks Darren, Yes, those might do the trick (if they take an 1157 bulb) but they're a lot different than the OEM socket, which has a red plastic ring around it. Here's a pix...

Thanks, Ed. I looked at the various types on O'Reilly's website and others, even in the CARS catalog, and was surprised that there are no types much closer or identical to the OEM version.

Thanks, Tim - I rechecked all my parts numbers and unless I got a defective new booster, I'll try a light pedal touch at crawl speeds. My mechanic (I know Bernie cringes at those words) mentioned that he may be able to install some kind of assist limiter, but at this point we have to know, as Jim Cannon says, whether its the assist or the linings. In fact I printed out all these responses and had him read through them before he picked up a wrench. As for your final comment, Bernie, my wife is just a tad older than a '63 model but still very much in fine shape - she's a fitness instructor. And as for a 22-year old, maybe a car, but I don't know that a 1992 model would grab me (pardon the pun) other than a Riv. And unlike a '63, at my age I'm sure they would be more aggravation that anything else in the longer run! But I get your point...

Hi Tom, I already know that trick and did indeed try that, but thanks for mentioning that. I had discovered that a few months ago that in its lowest position, the turn signal could act up, but I don't usually keep it there.

I replaced the booster with a new one for a '67 when I did the conversion, but did not have one handy today to swap out to see if it made a difference.

Does anyone have some pointers on how to refurbish the rear tail light/brake/turn signal sockets, or know of a good source to get a quality replacement? I've done the usual "make sure the ground surfaces are clean" thing and swapped bulbs, but one of mine seems to be OK on the tail lamp contact but sporadic on the blinker/brake light side. Thanks!

"I know it sucks because of the plumbing involved, but could you bypass the Prop valve with tees and try it without the added proportioning?" Tim Kaber So that's what we did today - we took out the distribution block and plumbed in a 3-way tee per Tim's diagram (thanks, Tim.) Everything else checked out: shoes (not new) are in the right positions, front and rear systems are plumbed to the proper m/cyl ports, wheel bearing nuts tightened to spec. This reduced the "grabiness" at very low speeds enough so that I can live with it if I remember it requires a light touch at crawling speeds. (My daily driver is an Audi A3, not something that needs a lead foot to stop.)At 20 mph and above the Riv brakes feel really good, with what I think is the right amount of assist. So let me ask: do other first-gen Riv owners have the same experience at low speeds? Years ago my brother had a '66 Wildcat that I thought was ridiculously over-assisted (or grabby) at low speeds, and I know these earlier Riv brake systems were designed to meet the needs of women drivers as well. I'd love to hear from other owners...

Thanks to one and all for your knowledge and advice! I'm bringing it in Thursday so I'll provide an update after that.

I reported here on this forum 2-3 weeks ago that I completed the changeover to a dual-master cylinder setup for a '67 on my '63, which has drum/drum brakes. After a few more miles, I still almost launch myself through the windshield due to a super sensitive brake pedal at very low speeds because of a ridiculous amount of over-assist. The changeover included the installation of a brass distribution valve, which I'm told is different from a proportioning valve required for disc/drum setups. So I'm told there's no real adjustment there. My mechanic says it may be that the front brakes need more adjustment to reduce sensitivity. The rears grab first as they should, but maybe not enough? Also just to be sure, which part of the master cylinder serves which brake system (front or rear)? I thought that the reservoir closest to the booster is for the front system, while the one that's closer to the front of the engine serves the rear. (I don't have my shop manual handy here at the office). Any advice as to how to reduce over-assist at very low speeds is appreciated. At higher speeds the pedal assist feels fine but pulling out of my driveway or into a gas station or parking lot makes it look as if I'm driving drunk!

Hi 68RIVGS, I'll check with the mechanic who helped me do this conversion, with Kaber's notes as guidance. That part was his part of the job, and it's a good question!