LINC400

Where am I posting about pets? Please show me all the posts where I have done this. I come here to talk about cars. There can be forums on the internet about ANYTHING. And I can belong to as many as I want. If I was rambling about pets, politics, religion or anything else unrelated to cars here, I would not have a problem with that being deleted. I am talking about posts about CARS being deleted.

There are obviously seperate forums for cars and sick pets. My point is that they all manage to exist without going down in flames or starting WWIII. My point is that while I agree with nothing you say, I don't think that your post should be deleted simply because it is not to my liking.

Yes, I mentioned that some give warnings or explanations. That is great. But others seem to simply delete what they do not like without any comments or reasons. I belong to about 6 other forums with cars and sick pets. This is the only forum that deletes things like this. I don't care for the massively offensive posts on some of the other forums on rare occasions. But I think I would rather choose whether or not to read them myself than to have everything stifled, and wonder whether I'm wasting my time responding to something that will just once again be deleted, especially if it is someone else's comment on page 7 that ends up with everything, even unoffensive stuff, being deleted.

I went to look at a thread I was involved in, and once again 6+ pages are deleted. Anybody else getting tired of everything always being deleted? I agree with deleting posts with name calling, insulting others opinions, political ramblings, etc. But I do not think entire threads of 5-6 pages need to be deleted when there is something offensive on page 7 only. Being a moderator is a thankless job that gets nothing but grief. Some moderators issue warnings if a post maybe headed out of hand or send PM's stating your post was deleted or watch it, or simply delete one offensive comment. I agree with that. But it seems that others simply delete entire threads if they don't like it or think that maybe, possibly, perhaps, sometime in the future someone might possibly be offended. And it is done without any comments or warnings. I don't think that only one person's judgement should prevail over a bunch of people that were enjoying a post. That is what I come here for, lively, civilized discussions. It has gotten to the point that I wonder if it is worth posting anything because it will probably eventually get deleted. That is really not a good reflection on the forum. I think there should be some sort of guidelines for deleting posts. I suppose this will be deleted as well, but it would be nice to see if any others agree before delete happy fingers get to it.

For me it wasn't one particular car that started my interest in the hobby. Rather it was a change in the auto industry. I had grown up with traditional full size cars. In 1977-78 GM downsized its full and midsize cars. I thought this was a horrible thing. I couldn't see how anyone could prefer a smaller boxy massively pillared 1977 over a 1976. In 1980-81 GM restyled the cars to make them more attractive. This got my approval. But then in the meantime, Ford and Chrysler shrunk their cars. Then the final blow. In 1985-86 GM took all of its nicely restyled cars and basically chopped off the front and rear ends. Leaving very unattractive boxy little things that made the 1977-8's look like works of art in comparison. Also at that time more imports were being seen. I decided then that my first car would never be one of these boxy chopped downsized things, nor would it be foreign. I wanted traditional American size and luxury. IMO the last "real" American cars before downsizing, bean counters, and your choice of three colors, and any body style you want as long as you want a 4 door pillarmobile. I owned only traditional pre-1979 cars until 2004. Giving the auto industry the finger. 25 years have gone by since then. A few brighter spots have appeared in the industry. But even the best of the new bright spots pale in comparison to what they try to copy from pre-1979. The pre-1979's are now too special to be relegated to everyday use. But I still drive a midsize American Buick that is 16 years old. Still giving the finger to the auto industry. And I love going to shows and seeing all the "real" cars. Wishing someday it could go back to being like that. But I know it never will. And I still wonder how anyone could have traded in that 1984 Park Ave for a 1986, or 1979 Town Car for a 1981.

Which 70's-80's Buicks will become popular and collectible? Possibly 70-72 Skylark GS, and 80's Grand Nationals. Maybe to a lesser degree boattail Rivieras and 80's Riviera convertibles. Aside from that, I really don't see any others becoming popular or collectible. First thing is I'm going to be bashed for liking Lincolns. But that is not what makes me comment this way. Look at several things. 1. 1957 Chevys and T-birds were already collectible when they were 15-20 years old. 1970's cars are generally still disrespected on this forum (more on AACA general than the Buick forum), and at shows. And they now average 35 years old. 1970's cars now have more defenders in recent years, but I don't see that mindset suddenly changing anytime soon so that 1970's cars are now the hot new must have cars. 2. Unless it is a Camaro, Mustang, Trans Am or Corvette, nothing from the 1980's currently attracts much collector attention. 3. Growing up when cars were being downsized, and hating the downsizing, I thought the pre-1977 and even pre-1986 models would be more collectible and in demand. They are not. Instead they get comments about what gas mileage does it get. How come gas mileage is a big concern for a 1976 Park Ave. which will probably end up using less gas for the year (because it is only driven to shows) than most people will use for their Honda or Toyota for a month? Why is gas mileage the #1 comment you will get for a 1970's Electra or Lincoln, but it is never asked for a Duesenberg, Chevelle SS 454, or Hemi 'Cuda which probably uses just as much if not more? Also why is it that a 1959 Cadillac or 60's Impala SS is no problem, but a full size 1970's car is just too huge to be driven? 4. In addition to the bad rap for gas mileage, they also get a bad rap for quality, and no performance due to emissions. Not all had bad quality or performance, but they are all brandished that way. There are plenty of 1950's and 1960's cars with bad performance and quality as well, but somehow it is never an issue like it is for 1970's cars. 5. The 1970's cars are getting more attention at shows. They get comments of grandpa or uncle whoever had one. But that does not mean these people are going to go out and buy one. That is what makes them collectible, and desireable. More demand than supply. I don't see demand exceeding supply anytime soon. You can find a nice low mileage 1970's Lincoln any day of the week on Ebay for less than $6000. Sure value guides put them at more than that. But that doesn't mean it is going to immediately sell for that. If it is on a car lot, it is going to sit there for ages. Only really amazing top line cars get more than $10,000. I don't follow Buick prices, but I would assume that could be said for 1970's Buicks as well. 6. With all the above listed for 1970's cars, it seems that I have forgotten the 1980's. But that is exactly the point. The 1980's cars seem to be basically forgotten in collector circles. The first half of the decade are now offically antiques. But I don't see any mention of them in magazines, at shows, in discussions like this. I think they will have an even harder uphill battle as collectibles. And the second half of the decade just seems like used cars. I hate that term when applied to 1970's cars, but in the case of late 1980's-early 1990's cars, it does ring true. There isn't too much difference between them and new cars in terms of styling, features, performance, etc. except they are older, and maybe in some cases, a little boxier. There is no big "remember when?" factor to them like with fins, chrome, and 70's excess. 7. 1970's and 1980's Buicks will have some owners and collectors. But it will be someone who remembers one from their childhood, or just wants or liked a specific model. That is how it will be for all 70's-80's cars. None of them will become the new 1957 Chevy in the collector hobby. And since this thread started 3 years ago, I don't think my answer would have changed from then until now. Same as the prices and general collectibility of these cars. I wish that wasn't the case. But I don't see it changing anytime soon.

I guess it was some sort of local chapter show put on by the AACA, but you did not have to be an AACA member to show your car. Most other cars had their windows down. I had only the drivers side down to minimize people petting the interior, and to prevent my Lincoln brochure from blowing out of the window. After walking past my car a few times and seeing people feeling up the seats, I simply put all windows up and locked it. I have no idea what the problem is, but everyone always has to feel up my seats. I have had other cars with velour seats before, but this is the only one that people can't seem to keep their hands off of. It must have something to do with the color.

The above is all well and good. But maybe people are just more obnoxious in my area. At a cruise night (which I attend), I expect the general public to be more uneducated and perhaps more obnoxious. So my doors are locked, and windows rolled up. There are still fingerprints all over my car when I get back. Annoying, but they do wash off a lot easier than mustard out of my velour seats. If I am by my car and someone expresses interest, I will open a door so they can look at it or take a picture. Depending on the person, I might even let them sit in it. At a car club sponsored car show, I expect better behaviour. I leave one window open. The other closed with my brochure on the dash. Yet there are still people that have to "pet" my seats. At the last AACA show I was at, I had to finally close the window since I did not feel like shampooing the interior yet again. And when my seat, mirrors, tilt wheel, was moved, that was also at a show where people should know better. In fact, if you are not familiar with 1970's Lincolns, the tilt wheel is basically hidden with nothing to indicate the car has it. So whoever moved it knew these cars, and should have known better than to be playing around in someone else's car. I agree it is nice to talk to people about the car. But I am not going to spend the entire day sitting next to my car in case people are interested. I want to walk around and see the other cars, and talk with their owners. So I should be able to leave one window open and not have to return to everything moved or mustard on my seats. If not, the car is closed and locked. Which is unfortunate for those that are interested in it, and know how to behave. And talking to offenders may or may not accomplish something as well. At the Ford Centennial, we met a guy with a 1903 Ford that was friends with our friend. He asked if we wanted a ride. We of course said yes. When we got back, we asked if he would take our picture in the car, which he did. Right after we got out a woman with her kids jumped into it, and instructed her husband to take a picture. Owner: What are you doing? Woman: I want my picture taken. O: This is a private car, please get out. W: I am not leaving until I get my picture taken, those other people had theirs taken. O: Those are friends of mine, and even they asked for permission. W: I am not leaving until I get my picture taken. O: Get out before I throw you out W: I am going to complain to Ford O: Go ahead. The owner was actually more pleasant in the beginning, but I forgot the whole conversation. She was just obnoxious. I have also politely asked people not to touch cars, or watch their camera, keys, jacket zippers that are banging against the cars, and have gotten sworn at. They also like to state that there is nothing that says they can't touch the cars. So with that in mind. I think some signs would be a good idea. I suppose flyers could end up as litter as well. But there must be some kind of middle ground to get the spectators to behave.

Thanks for the tips. I've already heard bring comfortable shoes, boots, shorts, T-shirts, winter jackets, and umbrellas in order to be prepared. I have a 2010 antique guide (which seems less useful than the 2003 I had before), and heard references to Lancaster. We will be staying with a car club member that lives about 20 miles from Hershey (provided my cat doesn't kill or seriously injure his dog while we are there). So hopefully he will have all kinds of tips as well.

With my previous Lincoln, I left it open at a show and was gone for 10 minutes. When I came back, someone had moved the power seat all six directions, moved all my mirrors, and moved the tilt steering. No damage was done, but it was an extremely ignorant thing to do. If they had asked, maybe I would have let them sit in it. But helping themselves when I was not there and moving everything was just extremely rude and thoughtless. A friend of mine went to the bathroom and came back to find a kid using the trunk of his 1960 T-bird as a slide. The father was standing right there, and said nothing! There are plenty more stories. So I think this needs to be addressed. When I was little, I was told absolutely do not touch the cars. Put your hands in your pocket if you can't stop touching things. And as a last resort, we leave or you are left in the car if you don't behave. Apparently not many people teach their kids this anymore. And it is even worse when adults aren't behaving appropriately. Apparently they were never taught as kids, or simply don't care at all. In addition to the sign suggestions previously mentioned, perhaps some cheapie Xerox flyers should be handed out when people enter the show. Maybe they should even have to sign that they agree with this, and can be kicked out if not abiding by the rules. It might be expensive or extreme, but if it prevents a Coke from being dumped in someone's fabric interior or saves a $10,000 paint job from being scratched, it's worth it. Unfortunately the disrespect for other's cars seems to be getting worse, not better.

Thanks for the info. My car only needs a few minor interior parts in its unique aqua blue color which I cannot find anywhere. So I wasn't really expecting to find them at Hershey. But we will be there for a week, and I will look anyway. Plus we plan on going to the AACA museum and Hershey chocolate. And if I have my way, as many antique malls as I can find.

I won't say that they don't have a right to be there. But it is about knowing your car's capabilities and limitations. I know a guy with a 1916 Packard Twin Six. He says he drives it 85 mph on expressways. If it can handle it fine. My car has excellent handling for a car its size. However, I am not going to run it on a slalom course against Ferraris and Porsches. My car has 4 wheel disc brakes with anti-lock (factory), and it has still had close calls. And if your car's top speed is 20 mph below what most people are driving on an expressway, and has brakes inferior to mine or even 1955 cars, then I would have to say that driving it on that particular expressway is not a good idea. Even less of a good idea in driving rain with semis bearing down on it. My antique car was rear ended and totaled on a road where it was more than capable of keeping up with traffic. Does it make me feel better to know that my car had every right to be there? No, it does not. So why put your car at extra risk instead of taking simple precautions such as stopping until bad weather passes or finding a more appropriate road?

My cars have always been driven. And I have more respect for owners that drive their cars than just trailer them everywhere. (although I can see not wanting to drive the ultra rare 1934 X that just finished a complete $250,000 restoration and have some idiot rear end it on the way to the concours). But it does not make sense to drive a car that has a top speed 20 mph less than what everyone else is driving on an expressway. And then to do so in bad weather with semis bearing down on it on top of that. I can see where there might be instances where there is no option other than the expressway. But then I would pull off until driving conditions were safer, or look for an alternate route even if it is going to be extremely inconvenient. It just isn't worth the risk of having the car damaged or totaled by someone else.

I have to agree with that as well. In addition to the above mentioned, my car has very plush aqua velour seats. For some reason, many people feel the need to "pet" my seats. I spent countless hours and weekends shampooing the seats, which were originally filthy and now spotless. I don't care if people are laughing that my car has the windows rolled up and doors locked when it is sitting next to a million dollar Duesenberg that is wide open. I do not need to be shampooing mustard, ice cream, sticky doughnut residue or anything else out of it.

My thoughts exactly. My Lincoln is more than capable of keeping up with (and passing) current traffic. Yet there are always idiots that feel the need to pass it/ cut it off/ slam on the brakes after cutting it off, etc. I can only think that in a car unable to go much more than 50 with less effective brakes and wipers, it really is a bad idea to not only drive it on a 70+ mph highway, but especially so in a driving rain or any kind of inclement weather. I'm not familiar with PA roads, but there must be some more appropriate alternative route for it.

My friend and I will be attending Hershey for the first time this year. It is a rather inconvenient trip for us coming from 25 miles west of Chicago, so this will not be a yearly thing for us. But I am curious to see if it lives up to all the hype. We have some pretty good shows in this area, Iola, Wi, ACD Fest in Auburn with former Kruse auction, so I want to see how Hershey compares.

I like that

Duesenberg - (showing an impeccably well dressed man/woman by a huge mansion/formal gardens/etc.) He/She drives a Duesenberg

Depends on how you take care of it. In 1996 my 1978 Lincoln with 127,000 miles on it was hit and totaled. The car was repairable, but with $3,000 in damage was considered totaled. I went looking for a newer car to replace it as it was my daily driver. I could not believe that cars that were less than 5 years old with less than 50,000 miles had filthy interiors all worn out with pieces cracked and missing, ran like crap, all kinds of stuff not working, body all scratched, dented, etc. cracked windows, and they were asking more for them than the $3,000 for my car that looked like it rolled off the showroom floor compared to these junks. Ended up replacing it with a 1979 Lincoln that was in much better shape than all the newer junks and cheaper. Same deal when I decided to retire the 1979 Lincoln from daily use and went looking for a daily driver. And again same deal when I replaced the 1988 Town Car. People can't believe my current car is a 1994 because it is so clean compared to theirs which are usually 10-15 years newer. Even when I took my VCR in for repair in the late 1990's, the guy said "It's a 1988? wow, it's so clean" What do people do to trash a VCR? And as far as an engine rebuild, I can't even count the number of stories I've herad about someone giving the neighbor, teenager, relative, etc. a perfectly fine running car that then blew the engine because they didn't bother checking the oil. That is not a quality problem. That is a stupidity problem.

Looking at a 1956 Coupe DeVille at a car show, Mr. Knowledgeable was explaining features to two bimbos. Pointing to the a/c vent on the quarterpanel "That is for cooling the brakes" Pointing to the bumper dagmars "They had more rural roads back then, so those are for pushing cows out of the way". For my own car Did you repaint the interior to match the car? Yes, velour looks so good when painted Did you get that bodyside molding at Walmart? Yes, Mediterrenean style molding in chrome trim molded exactly to fit the car in Aqua Blue Diamondfire Metallic is readily available at all Walmarts. Since the cat is on medication she has to go with for trips. For the last trip the cat, and not the car got the stupid comments. Went into an antique mall. It was too hot (92) to leave her in the car. So I left her by the front desk in her carrier. Picking her up on the way out... Is that a live cat in there? No it's dead. I just carry it with me everywhere. Did you buy it here? Yes, I buy all my antique cats here. There is a whole displaycase full of them pawing at the glass.

There were several coachbuilders that offered El Camino/ Ranchero type conversions for Mark V's. As it is definitely converted from a Mark V body, not bolted to a Ranchero body, this appears to be one of those. They all had different names for them. Second guess would be a flower car, but I do not see any stainless steel flower bed.

It depends on what cars you are talking about. A new Cadillac should be more reliable than a Ford Model T. But by the mid to late 1970's, most American cars should be just as reliable, safe, etc. as anything on the road now. And again depending on what it is, they can be older than mid-70's and still be well built reliable transportation. All I can say is friends, co-workers, relatives have all had new cars, and they are in for warranty issues and repairs far more than any of my cars have been in for repairs. And mine are 16-34 years old, so they are allowed to have something wear out or break now and then. Thanks to "unreliable, poorly assembled" 1970's cars, my mortgage will be paid off several years early. Then I can start saving for early retirement. I'd rather do that than spend all my money on payments and then sit in the waiting area waiting for my uninteresting automotive appliance to be fixed under warranty. As an added side note, I try to buy OEM or other quality parts whenever I have my car repaired. Yet the parts that have already been replaced fail at a much quicker rate than the original parts on the car. I frequently have had to replace something 2 years after replacing the original part that lasted 20-30 years. So if parts on the new cars are of this type of quality, I'm not impressed.

I fail to understand why people come on to this site to bash antique cars. I do not see how new cars are so much more reliable than cars from the 1950's -1970's. If they were so bad, how come there are so many still around? I had a '78 and '79 Lincoln Mark V for daily drivers from 1991-2004. They were by far the oldest cars out of anyone at my work. They were also in for far fewer repairs than everyone else's cars at my work. Everybody made the excuse that their cars were under warranty, so it was ok if they broke frequently because they didn't have to pay for repairs like I did. I told them one repair on my car is probably about the same as their car payment for one month, and I don't have to pay that every month. Two new VW's 2004 and 2006 at work, one needed an new engine, the other a new transmission when both were less than a year old. I don't care if it was repaired under warranty, that doesn't sound like a great car to me. Maybe if you owned a Renault Dauphine or Chevy Vega you did not have a good experience. But one bad model or one lemon does not mean that all new cars are better than all old cars. Plus most old cars have way more style, and way nicer interiors than anything you can buy today, regardless of what you spend. For example a 1959 Impala has a far more stylish interior than any new Cadillac, Lexus, Mercedes or BMW. Leather seating surfaces in your choice of 2 shades of gray accented with gray plastic is not stylish in my opinion.

I'd rather not take the seat belts out of the car. The rear seat would have to be removed in order to do this, and the front belts go through several decorative plastic guides and covers that crack when you try to open them up. We just tried removing the seat belts from a junkyard Town Car (for another car) in order to get the seats, and all the guides and covers cracked to pieces. Since mine are not currently cracked, I'd like them to stay that way. I have already scrubbed them with a brush with all above mentioned chemicals, and then used a suction shampooer on them all to no avail. I already tried Castrol and Purple Power and truck degreaser. They seem to have black and brownish yellow stains on them that will not come out. There were similar stains on the rest of the interior, but all that came out with either upholstery shampoo or Castrol and the suction shampooer. I have never heard of Korkay, but I guess I can try to look for that and try the baking soda and Lestoil also. Since the interior is all original I do not really want to start redyeing things.

I have spent several weeks cleaning and shampooing the entire interior of the Mark IV. Everything looks great except for the seat belts. I have tried various rug and upholstery shampoos, various degreasers, window cleaner, vinegar, ammonia, brake cleaner, various laundry detergents, carb cleaner, etc. and nothing will remove the dirt from them. I do not feel like buying new ones, and probably couldn't find a color match anyway. They are a bizarre shade of aqua that nothing ever matches. Everything aqua is always more green. Unless you buy something blue, then it is too blue. Is there anything that will clean these?