LINC400

No, it is not my goal to spread s**t around. I was trying to help you get new members and save money. Both horrible things. My above statement is very true. We have one chapter in our club where this is about to happen. My friend is in that chapter and has moved around the country many times. He said this is the worst behaved chapter he has ever seen. Everyone is set in their ways, and argues against everything. Their own opinions and having control are far more important than the good of the chapter. They have driven countless new members away. The national president asked my friend to take it over. He refused saying better to let it die and start over fresh. I belong to an online forum for sick pets. The original site was very good. Until the moderator became a tyrant. Banning everyone that didn't agree with him. He banned many very knowledgeable people that new members were depending on for help simply because they disagreed with him on something or didn't bow to his will. I was banned because he confused me with someone else. So a group of the banned members started their own group, and invited many of the current and former members to join. We did. It has been nothing but positive, and we never have to worry about big brother looking over our shoulder and randomly banning people. Hopefully the BCA is nowhere near this. But if you want to argue against anyone that can come up with new ideas with 6 paragraphs of conspiracy theories because it has always been done this way, you are headed in that direction. I see many good ideas presented in this post, a couple not as good. But with one minor exception, I have not seen anyone ask "How can we do this?". As 38Buick states, and my club's email newsletter show, these ideas do work. But all I see from this post is some people presenting very good ideas. And others shooting them down with made up theories. This will not get new members into the club. But it can cause the ones with ideas to leave.

The copier I have at work can scan 60 pages a minute. Double sided would take twice as long. In other words, 2 minutes. The pages are fed automatically so you don't even have to stand there. It automatically converts it into an email. So I can virus email the entire world. Total time, less than five minutes. Or if I want to make printed copies, it automatically seperates, collates, and staples up to twenty full color copies at a time. Again total time less than 5 minutes. What is this wonder machine that we have? A 10 year old copier that we paid $900 for when new. I'm sure you can get something that works even better now for less brand new. Or pick up a used one dirt cheap. Your obsession with someone stealing and emailing the whole world Bugles is bordering on ridiculous. If someone really wants to do that, they can do it right now. In less time than it takes to write this. They don't have to hack into anything on an email version. The Bugle might be a very nice newsletter, but it isn't made out of gold. We have had ZERO problems with our email newsletter for a year and a half. And no one has hacked into it and sent it all over the world. I'm starting to think that maybe it would not be a bad thing to let the current Buick club die out. Then a new one can be formed that isn't so set in their ways.

I read it. Sounds reasonable to me.

As I have said many times, the 100 year old rule applied to furniture, household objects and works of art, not cars. And the only one that uses that description anymore is U.S. Customs because they don't want stuff brought in duty free. Otherwise you could bring in any old junk and argue it was antique or collectible.

We actually receive an email notification that the newsletter is ready to be viewed. We have a website that you have to log on to with a password. Your password doesn't work if you are not a member or paid up. However, even with your current printed version, I can scan it, and print out as many color copies as I want, or email it to anyone I want with my cheapo $99 printer. If you have a lot of members that insist on having a printed copy mailed to them, you simply print it off the computer and mail it. When we wanted to switch to online renewal to save postage and trips to the bank depositing checks, we offered a discount to anyone that renewed online. You could do the same with the email Bugle. Offer a discount to members that receive it by email or charge more to those that require it being mailed to cover postage. You would be surprised how many people no longer insisted that they would not renew online when they were informed it would cost them more to do it by mail.

I fail to see what bounced checks and having back up for them has to with anything in this post. Computers can crash, cd's can be demagnetized and melt if left in the sun. And a printer made Bugle can be destroyed in a fire, flood, hurricane, tornado, wind blew it away on the way to the printer, dog ate it, rained on, someone stole the briefcase with it, coffee spilled on it etc. Yet that is how you have done for years. If you want to nitpick every possible reason an email Bugle might not work fine. But I think you are doing yourself a disservice. If the main cost for the club is the Bugle, an email version can bring your costs down to a small fraction of what you currently spend on it. As as I have already said countless times, You can print it and mail it if you want a printed copy. You can also print it from the email. You can print it hundreds of times from the one email. From the printer, you get one copy mailed to you. Our current editor has it saved on his computer, has it saved on a disk, and prints copies to keep on hand. There are 3 versions of it saved as compared to your one from the printer. If his house is gutted by fire, flood whatever, out of the hundreds of people that received it by email, someone will have saved the email or a printed copy and can email it back to him once he buys a new house and computer. He has shown the previous editors how he does it, and they are amazed at how he can get much better results doing things that they spent countless hours on with just a few clicks of a button. And he just has a regular PC, not a hundred thousand dollar mainframe. I didn't like the idea at first. I liked getting something in the mail that wasn't junk mail. But now that I have been receiving it via email for a year and a half, It is actually better. Before there was one copy that could get lost in the mail, or I could misplace. If for any reason, I don't get the email, I just tell them (it happened once). It is sent again in seconds as soon as they receive my call or email and are able to do it. I don't have to hope they have an extra copy they can send and wait days for it in the mail. And they can resend countless times, or still mail a copy. I can lose my copy or wreck it and don't have to call for another. I can reprint it as many times as I want. And I don't have to go out in the snow and rain to get it from the mailbox. But then if you want to sit there and spend all the clubs's money on a printer and postage, and think of reasons why it may possibly somehow not work via email...... And you are already offering everything you have listed above for guests. I assume that is not bringing in enough people otherwise this post wouldn't exist. A reduced price trial membership is an excellent idea that might get new members into the club. I can see presenting a few facts why something might not work. But if you simply want to shoot down every idea that might help. Your situation will not improve. Personally the continued shooting down of ideas that might help would be a huge deterrent for me in joining any club.

That too. As well as taxis. And Crown Vics were used even more for police and taxi service. And the Brougham and Town Car for limo and hearse builders.

As compared to a Ford Taurus which was the new look at the time. The Crown Vic and Grand Marquis were held over the same way and for the same reasons as the Caprice and Cadillac Brougham. They were supposed to have been dropped with the introduction of the Taurus and Sable.

The Caprice and Cadillac Brougham were supposed to be dropped in 1985-6 when their BOP stablemates were, except for 2 problems. Chevy really did not have an adequate replacement for the Caprice and people kept buying it. And Cadillac did have a replacement, but many of their buyers did not like the little fwd car, and kept buying the Brougham. So the two were basically unchanged until 1990-2 because they were supposed to be dropped each year, so no point in major design changes. When it became apparent that customers did want these cars, GM did redesign the sheetmetal to make them more aerodynamic. That was not well received. Most of the buyers were older, traditional, set in their ways, and did not like the new aero look. I also worked at a Chevy dealer in 1990-91, and old timers refused to trade in their boxy Caprices or snapped up the few remaining new ones. They also complained that "it looks like the rear is jacked up". GM cut out the rear wheel wells on later models to reduce that illusion. Since the cars did not sell as well as expected, they were dropped in favor of producing SUV's at that plant. Which were really taking off at that time. Lincoln had better luck with the 1990 Town Car, which managed to combine the aero and boxy look in one package. The 1998 and foward now gets compaints as being too aeroegg and Marquis-like.

So when someone new comes along wondering if their car can be shown in an AACA show and asks "What is considered an antique?", should we say 1. We've beaten this horse many times, and no one can agree on anything. 2. Anything older than Bubba, except we don't know how old he is. 3. Anything that was considered antique when Billy and his buddies first started collecting years ago. OR Anything 25 years or older

No, just simple logic. Unlike "any car older than me". Especially when they don't say how old they are.

NTX5467, I have worked for many different retail companies over the years. I haven't been in retail for years. But the basic principles don't change. We had 2 types of sales. We had sales on new merchandise to get people in the door, and to get them to see our better merchandise so that they would keep coming back. We had end of season clearances to clear out the old crap. Sometimes there were spectacular deals, sometimes customers overpaid for crap. But the words "sale" and "free" always got them in the door. If you buy more than you can sell, it isn't a good deal. But all the talk of old inventory, unable to sell extras. etc. do not apply here. You are not buying memberships from a supplier to try to sell at a reduced price and risking having them pile up in a warehouse. There is no overstock or unsold items you can't unload. You are simply offering a service at a reduced price in order to get people to sign up. It is what all service providers do. Also, if you cannot get people to sign up for full price for one year, they are not going to pay full price and a half to sign up for 2. If I'm not sure that I want to belong to a club for one year, I'm certainly not going to sign up for 2. You cannot be guaranteed that you will get the money back or make it up later with additional years. The idea is to get them to try the club. If it is such a wonderful deal as people claim, then people should have no problem signing up for additional years after their trial membership is over. But if they don't, really what expense would there be that half price membership would not cover? The Bugle is already being printed for existing members. So this would just be some extra copies and the postage to mail them. $25.00 will not cover that for one year? If it is really going to bankrupt the club to send out a few extra copies, then why not just Xerox cheap black and white copies, and the half price members can pick them up at an event. Or just leave regular copies out for them to look at, but they can't take them home. I also have a WebTV, and still use it. So I am very familiar with slow downloads or unable to download at all. However with an email newsletter, our editor does everything on the computer. He is able to type articles, receive and post pictures, set up everything on the page, and change everything as many times as he wants. All at no cost. I don't care how great of a deal you get from the printer. Nothing beats zero cost. Our newsletter is far more professional looking by email than it ever was from a printer. Because he can use as much color and complicated layouts as he wants, and change it around as many times as he wants until he is pleased with the look. All without paying any charges or extras to a printer. Then everything is sent by email, eliminating postage. For those few members than absolutely cannot receive it by email, or simply protest that they must have a mailed copy, he simply prints it off his computer and mails it. All it costs for the printing is small portion of an ink cartridge and a stack of blank paper. No professional printer can match that deal. If he has to mail it to half the people, we save 50% of our postage costs, if he mails it to a quarter of the people, we save 75%. No way to get any savings like that with a printer and snail mail.

Are there any differences between a 65 A.D. Roman urn, 1506 Leonardo da Vinci painting, 1861 Confederate cannon, and a 1912 Cracker Jack prize? Yes, plenty. But they are all antiques. So what exactly is your definition of an antique? Nothing with "fancy geegaws"? Most 1950's cars could be ordered with power accessories and automatic everything. So could some 1940's cars. On the other hand I have seen 1910 highwheelers that look absolutely primitive compared to a 1912 Ford. Does that mean your 1912 Ford is not an antique? Does it have to be prewar? So a 1942 Lincoln Continental and Packard Clipper are antiques, but nearly identical 1947's are not? Pre-1930, 1920, or 1912? So no car was ever the same in 1929-30 or 1919-20? How about a Model T from 1908-27? The 1985 is mass produced an high volume? A Model T isn't? The 1985 is slapped together with cheap materials? Is your 1912 Ford made with the same quality of materials as a Duesenberg or Isotta Fraschini? Or is it because that is what you or someone else first started collecting 25 or 50 years ago? The AACA is required to provide a definition of antique by the very name of the club. So should they use an unbiased definition based on age, or a definition of "What this guy and his buddies first started collected years ago, provided it isn't a car they don't like"? Should we use that description for the next 50-100 years?

As I have already stated on another post, it always amuses me when someone says that the AACA and CCCA do not own the English language, and have no right to make up definitions for the words "Classic" or "antique". Then we hear their version of what these words are supposed to mean based on their own made up definitions or what they heard from their neighbor's cousin's father who made up their own definition years ago. And we are all supposed to agree with that definition. Antique is based on age, nothing more, nothing less. For AACA, that is 25 years old. It is the same for many states as well. It does not matter if it has air conditioning or a hand crank to start it. Or what was considered an antique when you graduated high school, or if it was new when you first got married. If it is 25 years or older now, it is an antique whether it is a 1918 Packard Twin Six or 1985 Ford Escort. If you have a chair from 1860, that would be an antique. So if someone has a chair from 1530, does that make the 1860 chair not an antique or less of one? I don't think so. Would you like it if the person with the chair from 1530 told you your 1916 Cadillac is not an antique because it is nowhere near as old as his chair? It is not even 100 years old. You could have driven a new Cadillac in 1916 to pick up his 1530 chair from an antique store. It is the same with people with 1975 or 1985 cars. They do not like to hear that you consider their cars not an antique or less of one, just because it is not old enough for your personal taste. It is based on age of the car only, not your personal opinion of it. And you are insulting them and their car. Sorry but a 1985 Cadillac is an antique, and next year, a 1986 will be. And in 10 years, a 1995 will be. And if you don't think so, there were people that thought your 1915, 1940, or 1955 were not worthy of the term at one point also. But they were as soon as they hit 25 years, regardless of what those people thought.

"Free" and "sale" are not always used to clear out old junk. They are used to get people in the store, or club as the case may be. Free junk mail is not a worthwhile comparison. How many cell phone or cable/satellite commericals do you see every day? Those are not using "free" and "sale" to clear out old junk. They are luring people into signing up for their service. No different than getting people to sign up for the club. Also one of the car clubs I belong to has been doing an email newsletter for about a year and half now. None of the problems you describe above are going on. I do not have a state of the art computer or internet connection. It does not take forever to download, and there are lots of pictures. If you must have a paper copy in your hands, you simply print it. We also still offer the newsletter by mail for those that do not have an internet connection. I think about 95% of us receive it by email. I understand it is saving a ton of money in printing and postage. The newsletter editor likes it better as well. No waiting for the printer, no typos, errors can be fixed immediately, and last minute changes are no problem. Unlike with a printed newsletter.

The most effective word in advertising is "FREE", the second most effective word "SALE". Obviously you are not familiar with this. Everyone likes to think they are so brilliant, and are not suckered in by these words. But they most definitely work. Think day after Thanksgiving sales. Half off sales on car magazine subscriptions. Sales at auto parts stores. Otherwise these words wouldn't be used. The wife goes and buys clothes and household junk that isn't needed on sale. The husband buys tools and parts because he got a good deal. Then they yell at each other. Why? Because "sale" works. Always has. Always will.

160,000 miles and 16 years on my 1994 Regal. Driven daily, and wouldn't hesitate to take across the country

I have to say that offering a reduced price first year sounds like an excellent idea. I have no idea what would be involved financially for the club, but look at it this way. I currently do not belong to the Continental Owners Club. They have approached me several times about joining after seeing my car at an event. I belong to a couple other clubs already, am busy all summer long with their and other car events, and see no need to pay another $50 or whatever to belong to yet another club. Plus a couple of times they have invited us to join them for a pay on your own dinner at a restaurant. From what I have seen, they are cranky old men snobbish to anyone not in the club, and rude to waiters. This does not provide any incentive for me to join. I'm sure they have other events and not all members are cranky old snobs and rude to waiters, but I do not feel like paying $50 to find out. Now if they offered a trial first year $25 membership, I would say, well, only $25, I can try it. If I liked it I would renew for $50 or look at long term deals. However, I think making them guarantee a second year would not work. That would defeat the purpose of the trial membership. I would not want to be stuck in a club for 2 years when I'm not sure I even want to be there the first year. It might mean more paperwork, but if a half price first year doesn't work financially, how about a 6 month trial membership for $25?

Easy for someone to make comments like this when you are not involved and can just point fingers. I like to say that my job helps the U.S. economy because I export U.S. made goods to other countries. But if I had to take a job importing goods to the U.S. or lose my house and health insurance, I would start importing stuff. Then I suppose someone claiming to be noble could tell me I am a bad person for hurting the economy. Really, what is so horrible about a Hummer? It gets bad gas mileage? Is that really the worst thing in the world? Worse than factories polluting the air and water? Worse than tainted pet foods from China killing pets? Worse than drug, alcohol, gambling addictions or wife beaters? Really if the worst thing someone does in their life is work for or buy a Hummer, I don't think they should be stoned to death.

You can buy an antique Chevy. Then join the Cadillac club. You can tell all the Cadillac club members that you cannot afford a Cadillac and you have to have a Chevy. You can them tell them how your Chevy is simlar to or better than their Cadillacs. You can tell them it is better to have a Chevy that you fixed up with whatever parts instead of a Cadillac sitting and rotting in a field. You will probably not find many people to agree with you there. Or you could join the Chevy club and find lots of people that agree with you. Of course it is possible to own both a Chevy and a Cadillac and belong to both clubs and enjoy them equally. But then I wouldn't bring the Chevy to Cadillac events or the Cadillac to Chevy events.

I'd say there is no comparison between Iola and Jefferson. Iola is way bigger. For Jefferson we usually drive up early, which takes a couple hours, look at everything, stop at a nearby junkyard, and still make it home in time for dinner. Can't do that with Iola.

I think the difference is that years ago, there was one basic car for each manufacturer. For example, with the exception of the Corvette, all 1957 Chevys are basically one car. 150, 210, BelAir, basically all the same just changes in trim level, engines, exterior trim, etc. So when someone says 1957 Chevy, you know exactly what that is and looks like. So for many prewar cars a simple number designation would just tell you if it has the 8 or 6 cyl., longer wheelbase, etc. What was important was the manufacturer name. The numbers would just signify variations on the basic car. On the other hand, if someone says 1975 Chevy, a simple number designation for 6 or 8 cyl. will not tell you if it is a Nova, Chevelle, Malibu, Impala, etc. So those names are needed to specify a specific model. So when there are a bunch of different models, simple numbers and letters really do not put a specific image in your mind. especially when they add more numbers and letters to designate trim packages. Then add to the confusion by the cars not having much visual difference in appearance between models today. Compare the visual differences between the LaCross, Lucerne, new Regal as compared to a 1975 Skylark, Regal, Electra, and Riviera. Plus if you say Regal or Riviera, you immediately think Buick. If you say 300, is that Chrysler, Lexus, Mercedes, car or SUV, etc? Personally I think the worst is the current Lincoln line up with everything MK something, regardless of what it is. None of them have anything to do with a Mark series Lincoln, and one letter at the end really doesn't put an image of anything in your head.

I agree that four doors does not a muscle car make. I do not see Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers having 4 doors, and it does not seem to be hurting their sales. I least I hope to never see them in 4 doors.

I don't know if you have been there recently or what you are looking for, but they mostly have things like floor mats, tools, electrical connectors, aftermarket parts, etc. I have bought a few model cars and brochures there also. The parts are mostly junkyard parts or repros for more common cars like 55-57 Chevys, Mustangs, and Camaros. They don't have much for cars like Lincolns, Packards, or Imperials. I don't see any real reason to get there an hour before opening on day 1, but would recommend getting there early regardless of the day due to the fact that they pack up early. I could be out of touch with the parts scene as well as my car needs only a small handful of interior parts in Givenchy specific aqua. It seems the only way to get those is by stealing them off someone elses Givenchy. Which is why mine is always locked at a car show.

While some customers might have had their old body installed on a new chassis, I think it was much more common to just put updated fenders, grilles, etc. on the the car so that your $5000 car that took 8 months to build didn't look dated after the new model came out 4 months later. Interesting about the summer and winter bodies. I don't think I have heard that before.