1965rivgs

Correct

Hi Kentucky, Dont know where you gathered your info but it is incorrect. Approximately 30.5 % of `65 Rivieras were not equipped with AC. This is no surprise as A/C was a rather costly option at $430. Are you referring to "A/C modification" by any chance? If so, why do believe your `65 is so equipped? Tom Mooney

No

Great post as this is a much needed repair on those "savers" out there. Problem I see with the whole scenario is what to do about the double walled rocker panels. Usually, but not always depending on the car, locale, etc.. if both the floor pans and braces are gone there is some deterioration in the rocker panels. The pans and braces are no big deal but how does one adequately repair the rockers? They are structural and therefore safety related in a side impact....hmmm... Tom Mooney

Could be something involved with the brakes like mentioned above but I would take a good look at the brake reaction rod bushings. I have found this cure for the symptoms described in at least a dozen `60`s Buicks over the years. Also check to be sure the rod itself is tight. I recently made such a repair on a `66 Wildcat. Symptoms were exactly as you described. The bushings were fine but the rod had been loose for so long it almost sawed thru the attaching bolts....scary! It could also be something worn in the steering linkage like an idler arm but my first stop would be the bushings mentioned above. Tom Mooney

Put a mechanical oil pressure gauge in the port where the oil pressure switch is located (pass side near the top of the bellhousing) and determine how much oil pressure you have. Tom Mooney

Rich and I have been friends for many years and because he knows I am very, very familiar with the `65 GS models he asked me to look this car over to determine what is original, what has been changed, etc...very interesting car and history. What I find just as interesting are the opinions offered, both about the car and in what state it should be presented to a potential buyer! There doesnt seem to be much middle ground, does there? Very interesting... Tom Mooney

It isn`t a stretch to imagine the same guy who decided to skip installation of the Riviera script also misplaced the driver`s side GS emblem. At the point of manufacture I would hope the quality control personnel would catch such a grossly misplaced emblem, especially in June! Tom

The metal gasket under the carb to insulate it from contact with exhaust gasses in the crossover passage is not necessary on the dual quad manifold. The casting is not drilled between the groove immediately under the carb and the exhaust crossover passage in the manifold. It is therefore impossible for any exhaust gas to contact the base of the carb. A typical base gasket is all that is needed on the dual quad manifold. Tom Mooney

Hi Mitch, Problem with using the `71 and up wheel is that this wheel has a shallower offset which places the inside edge of the rim farther inboard. Often, but not always, this creates an interference problem between the inside edge of the rim and the backing plate, etc...especially when there are wheel balance weights installed on the inboard edge of the rim. Wheel spacers can be used to move the wheel outboard but I dont care for the general idea of placing the wheel`s load more outboard on the wheel studs. It will most likely be OK but I much prefer the deeper appearance of the correct wheels so that is the road I would take to solve your problem. Good luck! Tom Mooney

Hi Rich There was no fender which was specifically stamped as a GS fender...at least according to the parts books. The emblems were most likely installed using a template on the assembly line. This makes sense from a production standpoint. Why create a unique stamping for an option which resulted in less than 10% of production. Also, Buick changed the emblems and placement after just one month of production. Create another die for stamping? Probably not. Considering the previous body work on your car and the questionable quality (no Riviera script on the pass side front fender...was this a rare factory exception???) I would guess the script was placed in the wrong location on a replacement fender, maybe a used fender, maybe NOS. Tom

Barring any vacuum leaks from a faulty brake booster (squeeze off the rubber vacuum line with a needle nose pliers and check for change) or incorrect installation of intake gaskets, carb gasket, etc...an inconsistent idle speed is often indicative of worn throttle shafts/throttle body. While the car is running try to wiggle the throttle shafts back and forth and listen for a change in engine RPM. If the idle speed varies the engine is sucking air past the worn throttle shafts. Note that it is generally the rear or primary carb which suffers from worn shafts but who knows what the front carb has been thru? Could have had frozen shafts and someone buggered them up to get them freed up.... There is no idle speed screw on the dual 4 primary carb (unless someone has added one) so it is often a problem to get the engine to settle down to the same idle speed consistently, especially when there is significant wear on the throttle shafts. Good luck, Tom Mooney

I like orange candy... Tom

Not sure exactly where your location is but Carmen Faso at J and C Parts in Tonawanda, NY at 716-693-4090 is another East Coast option. I met Carmen at a Buick regional meet well over 25 years ago and he was showing a `65 Riv with a handmade tunnel ram and a solid lifter cam. He is VERY knowledgable when it comes to the nailheads and has always been very reasonably priced. I believe he does his own machine work. Just another option...good luck, Tom Mooney

He has already eliminated the problem by placing his hand over the front carb and cutting off any air flow. He has essentially done exactly what removing the carb and blocking off the manifold would accomplish. Tom Mooney

Closing the choke on the rear carb has no effect because the engine is breathing thru the front carb...that is why it idles down when you restrict the air flow thru it. Did you take out the screws which secure the butterflies to the throttle shaft? If so, the butterflies may not be properly seated in the bore of the carb and are allowing air into the engine. Pull the front carb and check the butterflies. I`m confident something is not allowing them to fully seat in their bores. If no problem with the carb you have a large vacuum leak which is bypassing the carbs...but I would focus on the front carb. Why would this be a timing issue if you rebuilt the carbs?? Good luck, Tom Mooney

Ed, Does it appear the barrel retractors can be added to an existing belt? The only illustration I could find of this retractor type is in the accessories section of the `64 owners manual so it is unclear if these were only factory installed or could be added by the dealer. Also, is there a date on the label of the belt which is mated to the barrel retractor? It is important to keep in mind accessories illustrated in the owners manuals may be outdated pictures and therefore not accurate when compared to actual production cars (that is one change we see in different editions of the owners manuals-updated illustrations). Always best to reference the cars first, then the literature. Tom Mooney

Started a new reply for the additional pics because I feared I would time out.... Ed, it appears from the pics in the owners guide your plastic retractors were either factory installed or available as a dealer accessory....or both. To answer the original question as to how many types of belts were available we need to find a `64 car produced after Jan 1st, `64 with the standard seat belts. This may be tricky because belts were a commonly added item so we will need to see original docs or at least check the date of manufacture of the belts themselves. I`m still holding out that the standard belts were a cheapish plastic buckle which would leave us with the conclusion the `64 cars were produced with two belt types...and two different retractors! Note the edition number in the following pics... Tom Mooney

When I saw John`s post referencing the `64 Owners Guide it reminded me that there are very often several editions of the owners manuals printed thruout the model year and that each manual from before and after Jan 1st `64 may provide some clues. The `65 models had at least 4 editions of the owner`s manuals including an edition which featured Buick`s marine engines. As usual, doing a little digging and disregarding assumptions turns up a surprise or two... I consulted the owners manuals in the ROA library and also my own and came up with several versions of the `64 Owner`s Guide. In the beginning of each owners guide there is a part number. If Buick makes significant changes to the owners manuals subsequent versions will carry the same part number and a note as to edition number. As evidenced by the pics (which I hope will upload) Buick likely produced two different retractors in the `64 model year. The earliest is the plastic barrel type which Ed has pictured in his post above (I have NEVER seen this type and assumed it was after market upon initial viewing) and the more typical `60`s type which is a metal bail type which John has pictured. Pay close attention to the part number and edition numbers pictured in the owner`s guides....wish me luck with the uploads...

Wow, Matt..this is a fine example of automotive archeology. Your car is a very early `64 produced at the end of the first day or beginning of the second day of production! The accessory codes on your Fisher body plate are a carryover from `63 and represent the actual sales codes which were filled in on the wholesale car order. Fisher body changed over to arbitrary codes in Nov of `63 so most of the `64 cars have a much different format than yours. According to the codes your car was originally built with remote control outside rear view mirror (S7) and tinted windshield (I7). If your car was originally built with the seat belt option there would also be a B1 code. Apparently your seat belts were added, probably at the dealer in `64. Your buckle design is correct for `64 but the manufacture date of the belts is later than the manufacture date of your body so they must have been added after your car was assembled. Very cool example of what must have been a very typical scenario back in the day. Thanks for sharing, Tom Mooney

Wow...John, thanks for the post. As evidenced by the 5W on the Fisher Body plate your car was originally built with the B1 custom belts with retractors. As I expected, the custom belt has the chrome buckle but I am surprised the retractor is the type pictured. I expected the retractor to be the floor mounted type which the `65 models were equipped with. Very interesting....BTW, the retractor pictured is the type offered in `65 and later as a dealer accessory to be used with the standard belts. Thanks again for posting! Tom Mooney

Ahhh...EXCELLENT question. Before calender year `64 seat belts were an option. So, at this time (Sept thru Dec `63), Buick most likely offered one seat belt option (without the retractor) with the buckle which Ed pictured above. Starting on Jan 1st `64 seat belts became mandatory/standard equipment. At this time there were two seat belts offered which Buick described as "deluxe" (standard) and the custom belts with retractors (optional). I suspect the standard style belts at this time had a cheapish plastic buckle and the extra cost "custom" seat belts with retractors had a chrome buckle. I dont have much evidence as to the early seat belt style in terms of factory literature but a later (March `64) wholesale car order lists: Option B1 custom front seat belts with retractor Option B4 Rear seat belts-deluxe (see note) Note: Code B4 rear seat belts-deluxe-corresponds in color and material as front deluxe belts now standard on all cars It is interesting to note that the rear seat belt option was added Feb 10th `64 I am assuming at this point the optional custom front seats belts came with the chrome `64 buckle which Ed has pictured above and the deluxe standard belts came with a plastic buckle with a pic of the Fisher Body carriage (as later standard belts)....but assuming is generally not good enough for me or for a definitive answer and I dont have the necessary `64 literature to do any better. I always intend to examine the `64 cars at the national meet and get sidetracked with other questions, socializing, etc...so the research doesnt get done. It would be helpful if everyone reading this who owns a `64 with seat belts could add some info as to how their car is equipped. A pic would be great, but not necessary, and the body build date in the upper left hand corner of the Fisher Body plate is needed. Also,if anyone has a `64 Salesman`s book or a `64 fleet catalogue there should be a reference to the seat belts. GREAT question...this is the kind of detail which keeps things interesting! Tom Mooney

If you have brake lights you have sufficient ground to support the tailights. Check for voltage on the tailight pin on the trunk side of the large rubber connector/plug. Have you checked the tailight fuse?? Tom Mooney

Are the brake adjusted properly?? If the pedal is solid but low there may be too much clearance between the shoes and the drums allowing for increased pedal stroke. If you are in doubt adjust the brakes tighter until the wheels will barely turn. Has the pedal come up? If so, you may just need to properly adjust the brakes. Even just one wheel will cause a low pedal. This may sound elementary but after a complete brake shoe change the shoes may not be centered in the drum. When this is the case, during initial adjustment, one of the shoes may drag on the drum before the other shoe is as close to the drum as it should be. This leaves the impression the brake are properly adjusted when they are not. Worth a try....good luck, Tom Mooney

Rob..are you restoring the car with the engine compartment pictured here? Are the other pics of the same car? Tom Mooney