mlander

If you are going to compare sparkplugs against one another, one should try to compare the sparkplugs of the closest type this would mean using a Champion RJ18YC which is, please note, a ?J? series plug which still shows the Bosch to be of the wrong reach that is 3/8? versus 7/16? a difference of 1/16?. WR10FC = plug, 14mm, 3/8" reach, by resistor by 13/16" hex head, standard projected core nose, copper core design. To pull up the address go to; http://www.sparkplugs.com/default.asp <span style="text-decoration: underline">What year of engine is this</span> as it sounds as if it is a 1936-1937 Zephyr and not the later engines which had H10 plugs with a regular non- projected core nose sparkplug! If you wish to get further information on the Bosch sparkplug designation codes go to; bosch designation codes. One other is below but they don?t all work as it seems as if Bosch wants to hide behind poorly written programs! http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/bosch.html - 13k - This will show the WR10FC is a 14mm by 1.25 thread pitch by 9.5mm reach by copper electrode material. 9.5mm/ divided by 25.4 = .375? the decimal equivalent of 3/8? simple fraction. To use the above address properly you may have to adjust your printer to do 2 or 3 pages to get all the information. Yours for better programs and information from Bosch!!! M.L. Anderson

All Sparkplugs are 14mm by 7/16? reach by 13/16? hexagon Sparkplug Champion?CHAMPION...?AC??..AUTOLITE OLD H9??.RH8C??...?45L?..?..4316 & 216 OLD H10??RH10C?????......?4616 & 216 H11?????????...??..?..?...4616 & 216 H12?????????....?..?.???4316 & 216 In regards to zeffer1940; Stock #7519 is a WR10FC which is a 14mm by1.25mm pitch thread by # 10 heat range by 3/8? reach by Copper which is the replacement for a ?J? series Champion sparkplug and not an ?H? series sparkplug. The ?H? series sparkplug is 7/16? reach. M.L. Anderson

Concerning the Bosch Super No.7519 mentioned by zman! I ran across the Bosch sparkplug Designation codes and tried to put together the number shown above and found that it isn?t a Bosch sparkplug number but may be a stock number. There isn?t any direct Bosch number for a replacement for a Champion H10 as Bosch doesn?t make a 7/16? (.4375? or 11.1mm) reach in a 14mm sparkplug. The closest they come is 9.5mm (.374? or 3/8?) or 1/16? shorter than an H10 plug. This means that Bosch only makes sparkplugs for the Champion ?J? series and not the ?H? series. Since the Thread Pitch of a 14mm plug is 1.25mm (.0492?) this means that the mating part, the cylinder head, has a protrusion of .0787? (1.999 turns) of threads into the combustion chamber. Not a desirable condition in any case! If you went to a ½? Champion "L"reach series the opposite of the above would hold true making the threads on the sparkplug protrude into the combustion chamber. The only Zephyr I could find that uses a ?J? series sparkplug is the 1936-1937 which appears to use the Champion J9 plug, later models used the Champion H10 sparkplugs from 1938 thru 1942 where my source stops. It probably goes on to 1948 but that is questionable for the reason as stated above. Bosch also makes sparkplugs for lawnmowers etc. M.L. Anderson

BUICK 1929-1930 DELCO AC # 88 replaced the J-12 & G14 BUICK 1931-1937 DELCO AC # 86 replaced the J-9,J-12 & H-9 These sparkplugs were later changed to C88 and C86 which are available today. The above does not give any differentiation between the low compression and the high compression engines. This is very likely due to the fact that AC engineers found that sparkplugs had a much wider heat range per sparkplug than thought possible in the very early 1930?s! My 1932 BUICK Shop Manual states that the J-12 was for Low Compression and the H-9 was for High Compression engines. Do not confuse the J-12 and the H-9 with Champion plugs as they; J12 & H9s are the early version of the C series of the Delco AC 18mm by ½? reach sparkplugs. The only difference I could find was the arrangement of the ground electrode. This was sitting off to one side instead of directly above the center electrode. At least this is true of the 1932 BUICK shop manual page 122 Figure 188. M. L. Anderson

This is to add to the chart above but is only about 18mm by 1/2" reach sparkplugs and to sparkplugs made after 1937 when AC changed their numbering system to the one shown. Ml.L. Anderson CHAMPION------ CHAMPION-------AUTOLITE------AUTOLITE-------DELCO AC--------DELCO AC------- NEW-------------EXTENDED-------NEW-----------EXTENDED-------NEW------------EXTENDED------- 18mm BY---------CORE-------------------------- CORE--------------------------- CORE------------ ½? REACH--------NOSE---------------------------NOSE----------------------------NOSE------------ ----------------------------------373------------------------------C 81---------------------------- D6------------------------------- 373-------------------------------------------------------------- D9------------------------------- 373------------------------------C82----------------------------- D9--------------------------------373------------------------------C83----------------------------- NONE-----------------------------386------------------------------C85----------------------------- NONE---------------------------------------------3116-----------------------------C85S------------ NONE------------D15Y----------------------------3116---------------------------------------------- D16-------------------------------386------------------------------C86----------------------------- NONE------------D18Y----------------------------3116---------------------------------------------- D21-------------------------------386------------------------------C87----------------------------- D23-------------------------------386------------------------------C88-----------------------------

Post deleted by mlander

To show anyone the perils of jumping to a conclusion about sparkplug conversion charts. AC must have ceased manufacture of the C87S 18mm by .500" reach and on the Champion crossover chart it is listed as a replacement with a 14mm $43.55 sparkplug! Champion Industrial plug 610 REL88B $43.55 14mm, 5/8"-24 shielded extension with 1" well depth, 1/2 in reach, 13/16 in hex $43.55 M.L. Anderson <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

After many days of almost continuous search I found this address again under a different name and location. It gives so many different plugs that it is impossible to describe except under its address. I even found the almost impossible to find Delco AC C86S sparkplug does seem to exist as it is used on Tractors and seems to be the best and only genuine AC substitute for the old DELCO AC G12, D12 and J12 plug of the early 1930?s. Now if it is only true??? http://www.aep.bigstep.com/Master_Table_of_Cross_Reference.xls M.L. Anderson

The 10mm Sparkplug Fiasco This started at Packard in 1937 with Champion plugs and then Packard went to Delco AC in 1940 and stopped in 1942. It may have gone on to 1949 but my information is hazy after 1942. One must remember the effects of WW-II on any automobile production which would include sparkplugs. Buick 1941 one year only. Cadillac 1939 to 1942. Chevrolet 1941 & 1942. Oldsmobile & Pontiac do not seem to have been deceived into this mess. M.L. Anderson

Whatever happened to the sparkplug situation? It would be very interesting to find out the engine and the sparkplug size if you have been able to ascertain this. Yours, M.L. Anderson

My old book written by Herschel Smith States this; Three cylinder radial engines Bristol-Lucifer 1925 Walter-Polaris 1928 Jacobs L-3 1929 Aeromarine 1931 This book is not complete enough to list magnetos. M.L. Anderson

The 1908-1915 AC Titan ?B? type plug has just come into my possession. This old plug is a real ?clunky" looking thing with a huge insulator body and has the characteristics as follows: 7/8?-18 threads per inch by 5/8" (.625") reach and a 1/4" (.250"') extended skirt with no evidence of a number or letter to signify the heat range which seems to be the usual pattern at that time as the heat range for sparkplugs was not appreciated by the plug manufacturers. As near as I can ascertain it is a cold plug but this is a very rough and easily wrong judgment. The only thing I have to ascertain this is a highly judgmental measurement method. A comparison to a Autolite 3076 makes the ?B? plug look very bad in visual comparison and is colder heat range but appears to be very similar to a Champion W18. M.L. Anderson

In spite of what is said about the not removing the heat raiser butterfly, I say take that thing apart, knock off the butterfly and throw it into the trash. This is the only place it belongs. I had a 1953 Dodge Red Ram V-8 and that @#$%^&*()_+ thing stuck and burned the valves to a highly unrecognizable degree, This is due to people who didn?t know any better using regular oil on it instead of some special oil that is unburnable as to not carbon it all up tight. It can also do this on its own but not as quick as when some guy in a filling station squirts oil on it. The only result you will get is the slow warm up period. Do not put a solid gasket on it as the carburetor does need some heat in normal running. Yours, M.L. Anderson

I have one copy of the Original multicolor LITHO of the 1951 Firepower Engine Sales catalog CS 275 in very excellent condition. This has been in my sole possession since 1951. If there is anything wrong with it, it is that the pages are slightly yellowed from age throughout all pages. There are no torn pages; stamps, tears, and writing only one slight blemish about .200? in diameter on the outside back cover. 20 numbered pages plus four pages counting the cover, inside back and front cover plus back. What is it worth and has any one seen one advertised on Ebay and how much? I would very much like to see this in the hands of a 1951 Chrysler V-8 engined car owner!!! Yours Very Respectfully, M.L.Anderson [Email m9a3r5i7o2n@comcast.net https://publish.comcast.net/cgi-bin/jsedit;url]

After you get that thing apart knock off the butterfly and throw it away! This thing caused more burnt valves than any other thing that I know of. When it is stuck in the closed position all the exhaust gases have to go through the passage in the carburetor area, a very small restricted area. I had this happen to an old 1953 Dodge V-8. If you want it to look stock this will not show up on the outside of the manifold. This will cause the engine not to heat up quite as quickly as when it is fully operative but if you take trips of over 10 miles you not even notice it. Do not use a solid gasket as that will cause absolutely no hot gases to get to the carburetor which does need some heat. The "Old Guy" is correct. M.L. Anderson

Manifold heat control After you get that thing apart knock off the butterfly and throw it away! This thing caused more burnt valves than any other thing that I know of. When it is stuck in the closed position all the exhaust gases have to go through the passage in the carburetor area, a very small restricted area. I had this happen to an old 1953 Dodge V-8. If you want it to look stock this will not show up on the outside of the manifold. This will cause the engine not to heat up quite a quickly as when it is fully operative but if you take trips of over 10 miles you will not even notice it. Do not use a solid gasket as that will cause absolutely no hot gases to get to the carburetor which does need some heat! M.L. Anderson

Houdaille Shocks and their history it is very interesting. Three places open after any one is opened. You may have to use "OPEN HYPERLINK". M.L. Anderson http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hdis.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hoper.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hreb.html

The only other Rotary shocks made to my knowledge were the Gabriel Rotary Triple Vane shocks made from 1930 to 1937 only a few were manufactured and they went on cars such as the Nash lower priced cars, Stutz 1929 and later and a very few other cars not made by the Big Three. In 1937-38 Chrysler went to Tubular shocks and Gabriel quit making Rotary shocks entirely as did Ford in 1948(?). The only place I have seen Gabriel Rotary shocks are on a Stutz in the museum in Las Vegas you cannot miss them if they all are marked as these four were with the name GABRIEL in raised letters. I do not know of any other Rotary Shocks made other than the Gabriel and the Houdaille (Hoo-Dye). M.L. Anderson Edit:The Mercer Automobile Company was a live-wire firm and almost every new automotive development appeared on the Raceabout. Houdaille shock absorbers were imported from France and the first cord tires used in America ran on the second place Mercer in the 1913 Indianapolis race. In 1925 the firm went into receivership. Edit #2:Read your interesting comment about the Houdaille (Hoo-dye) shocks and would like to comment about the real reasons, (I think) of just why the Houdaille shocks were so difficult to repair etc. The Houdaille shocks were invented in 1908 In France by the Houdaille Company and were the first shock to my knowledge to have the Double Action feature. One must remember that at that time modern Hydraulic shocks just did not exist as Houdaille?s patent must ?prove?. Very few of the shocks were made as the problem of making a good seal at the pressures and vacuum seem to indicate were needed to produce a good and dependable product. One must remember that in 1908 plastic seals of good sealing characteristics were unknown. Look at the new seals for valve stem sealing we have today and one will see that we have come a long long way in sealing knowledge since the first forty years of the Twentieth Century. The Houdaille Double Action Hydraulic Shock remained the one and only Double Action Shock until the patent ran out and Ford used this fact to put the very same shock on the Ford line of Cars and particularly on the Model A. General Motors also started to put double action shocks on the their products around the same under the name Delco-Lovejoy. By 1928 or thereabouts Gabriel also started to make shocks almost identical to the Ford shocks and they were used by small manufactures such as Nash, Hupmobile etc. This kept up until about 1937 when Gabriel stopped manufacture of Rotary Hydraulic Shocks and went entirely too Tubular shocks which Chrysler adopted completely from the Plymouth thru the Imperial. http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/Ford/Haudaille/pages/houdaille%2031_jpg.htm M. Houdaille, a French citizen patented the first hydraulic shock in 1908 + 17 years = 1925, just 3 years before Ford put their own shocks on the Model A. Just 3 years after the patent ran out. I wonder if Ford ever paid any money to M. Houdaille for the use of any patents, doubtful! Ford even went so far as to put the FORD logo cast into the cover in script. Whether he put them on all of them I don?t know. One place I ran into seemed to believe that Lincoln did put Hydraulic shocks on their cars before the Model A got them. Does anyone know? EDIT #3; I just today found this about the Houdaille Shocks and their history and altho it does not have much application to the Gabriel shocks it is very interesting. It does explain a little about the triple vane that Gabriel used. Three places open after any one is opened. You may have to use "OPEN HYPERLINK". M.L. Anderson http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hdis.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hoper.html http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1205/hreb.html

STUTZ AC SPARKPLUG SPECIFICATION CHART 1945 ISSUE Passenger Cars---1924-1942 Stutz Model 693-4-5??.78S All Others??????..86 AC 78 = 7/8?-18 by 5/8? nominal reach by # 8 heat range. S= Extended Tip AC 86 = 18mm by ½? nominal reach by # 6 heat range.

My old source for Lincoln 1938, Ford 1937, Graham 1936, Mercury 1939, Chrysler 1936 states that Champion H10s were in use in 1937. Another thing just try to find a Bosch catalog to find out just what Bosch plugs are and all the heat ranges etc, etc are!!! I have catalogs for Denso and NGK but have failed completely on finding a Bosch catalog for old cars. Now if I could find a catalog for Bosch just to find out what they are up to with their plugs it would be different. I would like to meet this guy and find out just who and what he works for I wouldn?t even be answering this message. Yours M.L. Anderson H-10 CAMPARISION TO AC, DENSO, NGK & AUTOLITE SPARKPLUG MAKER THREAD SIZE THREAD REACH HEAT RANGE NUMBER HEXAGON SIZE CHAMPION H-10 14mm 7/16?(.437?) # 10 13/16? DELCO AC 44L 14mm 7/16??(.437?) #4 13/16? DENSO W16LS 14mm 7/16? (.441?) # 16 13/16? NGK B6L 14mm 7/16? (.438?) # 6 13/16? AUTOLITE 216 14mm 7/16?? #6 13/16? Note the lack of a Bosch sparkplug!!!

To T. Bond; It may very well be that dirt in between the layers was the real reason for boiling the sparkplugs of mica as that may have been the only way to get in between the layers of Mica with any safe cleaning liquid. I have a KLG Type 341 and the round ground electrode is only half way across the central electrode. All of this being buried down inside the I.D. It looks as tho it is one cold plug similar to an AC G6 except for the G6 being a side firing ground electrode. I have a sketch of a genuine KLG for the Sunbeam-Coatalen V-8 engine which looks very much like the plug I have which is described above. Since you obviously have been studying sparkplugs for some time do you have any opinions on the sparkplug invention time and by whom? It may be silly but for me people claiming something without any real explanation as to just what part of an invention it is is in the category of libel and false claims without any recourse by the true inventors. I became very interested in this when I started a study of the old Oakland V-8 of 1930-31 which used the G series of AC sparkplug for only the two year span and then changed to a K series 14mm plug for the Pontiac V-8 of 1932. Also a sparkplug chart I found showed the sparkplug heat range was changed from 18 heat ranges to only 8 heat ranges. About this I wrote to Donald McKinsey and his statement about this was to the effect that the G series of plugs had far too many overlapping heat ranges of which I had suspicions as my study indicated. There must have been a lot of changes at AC from about 1928 to about 1938 or so. This is in regards to heat ranges and plug types such as the electrode arrangement plus the 1937/42 10mm fiasco. It seems to me that at AC there was a sudden wakeup by someone about the heat range of various sparkplugs around 1927/1930. What makes me wonder is, ?Did the same thing happen at other plug manufacturers around the same time or was AC late in the realization that it was so?. For example did Bosch realize this earlier or was it a general happening as tetraethyl-lead became more available and less expensive, this being developed in the early 1920?s. One must remember that Tetraethyl-lead is a poison. It isn?t colored red for no reason. One only has to read about Jimmy Doolittle?s experience to realize this. Yours, M.L. Anderson

Terry Bond Member Quote from Terry; Reged: 05/02/00 Posts: 750 Loc: Chesapeake VA Re: Modern Champion Spark Plugs - bad experience? [Re: De Soto Frank] #295520 - 05/09/05 10:20 AM Spark plug history lesson #4-the earlier plugs worked better because they had a different insulator design-the center electrode was up in a recessed area inside the insulator. If the plug became fouled or sooted, the short circuited spark had further to travel to ground, so it took far more oil and soot to short them out. Remember the spark will jump only across the shortest distance. Realizing that, many early spark plug designs were based on what was known as the "Canfield Patent (1898). Modern spark plugs probably don?t have that feature. Center electrode is usually enclosed at the tip of the insulator giving spark shorter distance to travel. Our earlier cars probably run pretty rich to start with that that'll soot them up quickly, shorting them out faster than the earlier type with the center electrode up inside a deep recess area. Terry Dantewada, India The very earliest plugs were made using French clay as the ceramic. Mica was also a popular insulating material (thin mica washers layered together). In the early days, the glazing was necessary to protect the porous and brittle ceramic. In 1916, Champion began using a mineral called <span style="text-decoration: underline">Siliminite</span> . They acquired the sole rights to mine this material when they purchased a competitor plug maker (Jeffrey DeWitt). Siliminite is so hard that a broken piece of it will cut glass. It?s been the material of choice for many years and glazing over it is not really necessary. I am not sure what other plug makers use for their insulating material but any post war major brand plug should be able to withstand blasting to clean the junk. Fine sand and low pressure of course! My personal preference however is to use the carb cleaner. I just feel better using it as I?m always worried about something getting stuck way up inside the plug, then letting go into the engine later. I?ve also seen folks just hold the business end of a plug up against a wire wheel and the result is a discolored ceramic, but no other significant damage. As for a blasted insulator facilitating the "regrowth" of the gunk accumulation, I hope our mechanics are smart enough to know that clean spark plugs are not a permanent cure for bad rings, etc. Terry Existence of a heavy deposit of Siliminite/Kaynite has been unearthed by the Mining Department, at Kerapal & Koyavekur of Tehasil Konta India. The following is copied from the Shop manual of the SUNBEAM-COATALEN V-8 OF OCTOBER 1916. Altho this engine has been referred to as the Worlds Worst V-8 engine the following is of some interest. We recommend the K.L.G sparking plugs on these engines as being the only ones which have proven suitable for this purpose. The outstanding characteristics of these plugs is the central electrode, of which the point is nickel, which is made of copper and carries at the top a small copper radiator, combined with the heavy cross section of the conductor, ensures that the conductor is cooled. (Figure XL). It will be appreciated that in engines of such efficiency as the Sunbeam-Coatalen Aviation series the internal heat generated presents designers a more difficult problem than any other. It is for this reason that porcelain sparking plugs prove quite unsuitable. The K.L.G. is a mica insulated plug. In point of fact, the only other insulation that will stand up to the work is quartz. At the present moment, however this latter is very hard to get. The K.L.G. firm has made the necessary arrangements to ensure that a continuous supply of their plugs shall be available for all Sunbeam-Coatalen aircraft engines. The KLG sparking plug is put together by means of hydraulic pressure. It is next to impossible to clean it by ordinary mechanical means. The method we employ, and which we advise others to adopt as being the most suitable, is to dip these plugs in strong soda and water, boiling them for a quarter of an hour or so then dry them rapidly in a hot place. This will remove any of the oil, carbon or other foreign matter which has collected in the pocket of the plug. It should be remembered that behind the contact points of this kind of plug is a small pocket, and that any difficulty with the sparking will very likely cause stale gas of sorts to burn behind the points and in the pocket, where there is generally an accumulation of dead air with all the characteristics of a weak mixture. (Figure XLI.) Owning to its poor quality this dead air or stale gas in the pocket of the plug will burn very slowly, and so ignite the incoming or fresh charge in the cylinder. Thus it happens sometimes that an engine exhibits all the characteristics of a weak mixture when, in fact, the only fault is in this misfiring of a plug. These plugs were 18mm by ½? reach and naturally no heat range seems to have been offered or even considered, these two things were to be addressed in the 1920s. However one can tell by the tenor of the writings that they were on the track of heat ranges. Keep in mind that this was written in 1914. Later K.L.G (Or Lodge) plugs were made with a Pink insulator body and did not use the mica insulator. Just why KLG (Or Lodge) people claim to be the inventor of the modern spark plug has escaped me, maybe someone else knows, I certainly don?t know. M.L. Anderson

Any old engine will have a significant amount of wear on the valve guides due to the rocking back and forth of the rocker arms sliding to and fro on the valve stem. One can see this if one rocks the valve stem back and forth in the direction of the rocker arm movement. This is not quite as apparent on an engine that has the valve driven directly straight up and down as in a direct push valve mechanism as an L-head engine (side valve). One can put a dial indicator on the valve stem to observe this if necessary. This is one of the beauties of a direct push valve mechanism. Hispano-Suiza called this mando directo in about 1914. This phenomenon is also apparent in the wear on the tips of the rocker arm in the ?undercut? on a high mileage tip of the rocker arm. If one takes a good look in the cutaways of the rocker arm on the engine cutaways views will easily see the several drilled holes in the arm for oil, hopefully clean oil due to having the filter in the oil pipe coming up the front right side of the engine block! The oil holes are drilled in the rocker arm shaft for the clean oil to be delivered to valve mechanism in sufficient volume to reduce the wear on the whole valve system! There is also a screen in the oil supply line which needs to be cleaned on occasion. Also remember to replace the valve guides and install a valve stem seal of modern quality to fake out the people who don?t know that you know how to get it done properly. Here is just one of the modern seals you should surf the net to find others such as Perfect Circle for one. http://www.enginetech.com/pr_valvestemseal.php M.L. Anderson

Read your interesting comment about the Houdaille (Hoo-dye) shocks and would like to comment about the real reasons, (I think) of just why the Houdaille shocks were so difficult to repair etc. The Houdaille shocks were invented in 1908 In France by the Houdaille Company and were the first shock to my knowledge to have the double action feature. One must remember that at that time modern hydraulic shocks just did not exist as Houdaille?s patent must ?prove?. Very few of the shocks were made as the problem of making a good seal at the pressures and vacuum seem to indicate were needed to produce a good and dependable product. One must remember that in 1908 plastic seals of good sealing characteristics were unknown. Look at the new seals for valve stem sealing we have today and one will see that we have come a long long way in sealing knowledge since the first forty years of the Twentieth Century. The Houdaille Double Action Hydraulic Shock remained the one and only Double Action Shock until the patent ran out and Ford used this fact to put the very same shock on the Ford line of Cars and particularly on the Model A. General Motors also started to put double action shocks on the their products around the same under the name Delco-Lovejoy. By 1928 or thereabouts Gabriel also started to make shocks almost identical to the Ford shocks and they were used by small manufactures such as Nash, Hupmobile etc. This kept up until about 1937 when Gabriel stopped manufacture of Rotary Hydraulic Shocks and went entirely to Tubular shocks which Chrysler adopted completely from the Plymouth thru the Imperial. http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/Ford/Haudaille/pages/houdaille%2031_jpg.htm M. Houdaille, a French citizen patented the first hydraulic shock in 1908 + 17 years = 1925, just 3 years before Ford put their own shocks on the Model A. Just 3 years after the patent ran out. I wonder if Ford ever paid any money to M. Houdaille for the use of any patents, doubtful! Ford even went so far as to put the FORD logo cast into the cover in script. Whether he put them on all of them I don?t know. One place I ran into seemed to believe that Lincoln did put Hydraulic shocks on their cars before the Model A got them. Does anyone know? M.L. Anderson <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is most peculiar for a car made in the U.S.A. before 1929 to have an 18mm thread! Does this car have a Wisconsin/Continentel Engine, Straight eight or six?! .ML. Anderson <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />