trimacar

The pictures were taken by Greg Cone, owner of the Stoddard Dayton. I'm hearing from him that the race cars were in a separate area, that's why I was wondering if you saw them while there. They also ran the track, starting with the earliest......

Did you see the race cars too? There were apparently quite a few (I wasn't there), among them the Stoddard Dayton, American Simplex, and National, pictured.

I remember once taking a Sears Autobuggy to the Petit Jean mountain meet. The car had been restored to beautiful condition, and was an AACA first place (this was mid-1980's). The fellow who restored it, David Stewart of Longview, Texas, had a little 1911 or 12 Buick runabout there, an older so-so restoration. The judging consisted of the team of judges standing in front of a grandstand. You'd drive your vehicle up, stop while it was still running, and they'd judge the car in about 2 minutes. It ended up being "good old boy" judging. They knew who David was, they didn't know me, nor did they know that my Sears had been restored by him. He took first place with his Buick, and my Sears took second place, in the class. He was hopping mad, and the judges didn't understand why, shucks, he had a first place trophy......... So, there's a way to judge while the car's running...

Now if you'd asked about a Henweigh, THEN you'd had some good responses.......

My buddy Greg went, with his 1912 Stoddard Dayton, don't have pictures yet, but you can read about it on the large Avanti thread under projects. You can also look at pictures of his SD engine on (a great early picture site): The Old Motor | Old Photos of Antique Cars and Trucks His comment was that, at least on one day they were running cars around the track, it wasn't open to the public, which sounds crazy.........and they ran them around by year, with earliest cars going first, on up to more modern race cars..........

The 325/ton is "retail", so to speak, so the 200/ton is about right "wholesale" for a yard looking to make a profit....

Well, scrap iron is about $325 per ton, so if the frame weighs 500 pounds (which would be high) then it's a fourth of that, or about $80. Does that help?

Greg's having fun, what a great experience.....and a Stoddard at Indy, lot's of history there.....

a 50's set of coveralls for Oldsmobile service person sold at a local auction here recently, over $100, so this is not a bad deal......

It appears to be a 1905-08 runabout, fun project....good luck!

Hi- are these suitable for a 1938 super 8? Or earlier models? If they'd work on the '38 I'd be interested, email me at David.Coco@hphood.com thanks dc

The owner is an acquaintance through work, he'd mentioned a few years ago he had a low mileage Suburban, and I called him recently just to see if he'd consider selling. He thought about it and has said yes. Truck was garage kept for all but the last couple of years, it's in great shape... He'd probably let me take it for a spin and hook up my trailer, so might do that. We'll see what happens. Marty, will keep you in mind, of course....my brother mentioned he might want it for a "woods truck" at his camp....

I have a chance to buy a super low mileage (32000) 1995 Suburban, 3/4 ton, 7.4 L engine, all the goodies and in great condition. I thought this was a slam dunk, but now read on Internet that the 1996 was the first year of the Vortec engine, went from 230HP in 1995 to 290HP in 1996. and about a 10% increase in torque. It so happens the Suburban I'm trying to replace is a 1996 with 7.4 (and 160K miles), and I love the way it tows. Would I be disappointed in the 1995, with lower HP and slightly lower torque???? Tow enclosed trailer plus heavy Classic cars, 9000 pounds minimum. thanks ---David

Regarding "freebies", those are the ultimate high in the collecting world. I was once talking to a really nice guy on the west coast about my Model 16 Buick, and the conversation turned to top irons. I mentioned that I was missing one iron, and in conversation, he asked "which one". I told him, passenger side back corner, just making conversation. Two weeks later, in the mail, the exact iron, handmade, that I needed. He had the patterns, and made one, not expecting nor asking for payment. Wow. I have a friend, his father was restoring a car, all done but upholstery. His father had a health scare, wanted interior and top (touring car) done so he could see car completed in case things went south. He supplied leather and top fabric, I did it for free to get it done. He's paying me back by restoring a couple of engines for me, so I guess I didn't do it for free, but money was not the object. That's the beauty of the true car collectors, not in it for a buck, in it for the fun and friendship. And Steve....I have comprehensive understanding! dc

Steve, I don't agree with the method used by my friend, just commenting on how he did it. I don't believe an approach like that would ever fly with today's Internet and price guides. With those tools available to everybody, we, as collectors, can only hope that we get fair deals on cars being sold by non-hobbyists. In my experience, usually a hobbyist has a rational view of the value of a car, and it's better to buy directly from him for a fair deal. Dealers make their living by buying at a price that allows them to wait, and find a buyer who has both money and the burning desire to have that particular car, even if it's at a price that may be higher than what many would consider "fair". "Fair price" and "market value" are thus exclusive descriptions, and conditions determine which applies to a transaction. If the guy really wants to sell, his price will have to adjust to market. IMHO.

And sorry for the duplicate post on Greg's report....no report from him last night, so not sure what's going on...... Ford makes financial sense, bet the Suburban is more comfortable.......

I had a friend in New Orleans that had a special way of dealing with people offering cars at a high price (no, Marty, not you, JCS). Now, bear in mind that this was pre-Internet and pre-price guides. He'd go see the car, if he liked it, he'd make a fair or slightly low offer. If refused, he'd line up 2 or 3 friends to go see the car, one at a time. The first friend would offer 10% lower than his offer. Next friend, 10% or so below that, and so on. On a few occasions of doing this, the seller would call him, happy to get his offer paid, as the car seemed to be losing value with each looker!! This is the same guy, I had a nice porcelain sign collection. Told him it wasn't for sale. He said, OK, but IF YOU SOLD IT, what would you ask? I named what I thought was a high price, he said he'd take it, and the price was sufficient that I went ahead and sold..... More than one way to skin a catfish............

I agree with not using the guides. Go to the guy, have a frank discussion that says you'll pay x amount, that's the most you can afford to put in the car in the condition it's in. Be prepared to walk away, if he says no. Be prepared to be diplomatic, if he gets aggravated at the offer, and just say you feel it's a fair offer, and walk away then too. The key to all this, is you can't be hung up on getting that particular car, or you'll end up in a very unproductive argument with the would-be seller............

In that case, for sure very high, 45K will buy you all sorts of high end, nice cars. Not that this isn't a nice car, but agree with previous comments that 15K is all the money for it....there sure were some pretty cars made in 33-34, though, an automobile manufacturer really had to work to make something not attractive......

Was the car really for sale, or the guy just saying a price? Some people who don't want to sell a car will name a high price when asked, just to confuse and confound the person asking. Been known to do that myself. Just for fun........

All right, here we go. Most people know the story, when Geronimo had been defeated by the soldier forces, he still lead his people proudly. And, around 1903, the Government, with all the wisdom it could muster, presented him with a brand new Cadillac. Now, a more useless gift could hardly be imagined. Bet he wondered where all those horses were that everyone kept talking about, couldn't hide them all under that small hood...... Then the famous picture of him with the car....well, lo and behold, it's a 1905 Locomobile! Wow, this story's just not right. All brought on by the latest news, that Indian tribes are offended by using Geronimo as a code name for the operation of getting rid of a bad, bad man. Ah, life. Isn't it the perfect thing to pass the time away?

OK, so if any of you want to comment on this, go ahead. Greg is taking his Stoddard to Indy for the 100th year celebration. He has a choice of two tow vehicles (and try to say two tow ten times quickly!). "Given today's fuel prices, for long distance towing , which would you choose? 1. Chevrolet Suburban gasoline x 9 mpg 2. Ford truck diesel x 12 mpg." My suggestion was the Suburban, the heck with saving a few pennies on diesel......

And now I'll add Greg's Tuesday 5/3/11 report, there are pictures, I'll see if I can transfer same...... Cone's Restoration Fact #9 When the restoration is 75% done, you've only 90% to go. Stoddard prep. Working on hardware. Changing out bolts and screws used to hold it together although improper. The steering arm retainers for instance. The hole through the arm wasn't accepting the 5/8 bolt so I used a 1/2" instead to get it going. Time to fix it. Even though in finish paint, I had to open the hole slightly . Didn't have a reamer, so I used a drill bit in a 1/2" drill motor. And lived. And didn't scar any paint. Then a new bolt was shortened and drilled for the cotter pin. Upon assembly I found that there was still interference, so dismantled the arm and filed the notch in the steering shaft until things fit. Probably an hour and a half. I've also been working with rear suspension hardware, installation of brass screws, etc. Clock's ticking, lots to do, got to be ready for the trip this time next week. Pics of steering arm hardware, some of the rear suspension stuff. Notice the spacer on the rear spring perch. That replaces the running board brace. The other running board brackets aren't rivetted to the frame . They unbolt so the fenders can be removed for racing. Also, a sampling of brass screws. Took the Avanti to lunch. And back.

Greg's weekend wrap-up, 5/1/11 at 6:11 pm: Sorry, no pics. Been running hard the last few days. Avanti: Friday I worked on front headliner installation. Got it in using the velcro method. Saturday I tried to get the rear liner in, but it was being difficult and I ran out of time. I'm curious to see if the front liner is still stuck tight to the ceiling. Stoddard=Dayton. I'm to take it to a vintage race show and demonstration at the Indianapolis Speedway event in mid May, (no I'm not entering it in the 500). That means shifting cars and work . Drove over to Unimog's to borrow his truck/trailer combo on Saturday. Today, the '14 Harvester was awakened from hibernation, trailer loaded and taken to Maryland to swap spaces with the Stoddard. With it close at hand, now I can resume some of the detail work that it needs. Tonight I've been prepping some greasecups that I ordered from one of the parts suppliers. Curious thing, proudly marked MADE IN CHINA , they were lacquered brass, but they weren't buffed. So, I've stripped and buffed them. Today was a raw and rainy day, so perhaps tomorrow I'll unload the car and start in on it.

One more thing, from a safety standpoint. If you put in a filter bowl, or regulator with a moisture trap, be careful putting in polycarbonate bowls. I worked for a company that used these all over a plant, until a maintenace person was draining and it exploded, he lost an eye. The Poly carbonate can develop cracks, and as soon as he started turning the drain, the bowl came apart violently. Even in a garage, safety glasses are a good thing.....be careful out there!!